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Old 10-24-2010, 09:22 PM   #11
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Don't forget that all of the TV specifications that are listed DO have safety factors built into them. I currently have a 2010 8317SS and it tows fantastic behind my Excursion with a PSD. I'm using an older style Reese Dual Cam with 1000 pound torsion bars and I have no problems now that my hitch is set right.

As for your dealer...I search for another Rockwood dealer.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Vizslas View Post
Don't forget that all of the TV specifications that are listed DO have safety factors built into them.
I have heard this same argument from pilots talking about aircraft limits. Yes, you can over G an aircraft without dying. Sometimes more than once. However it may not be you flying the aircraft when the wings do come off (and they will).

The "safety factor" you speak of is called "life expectancy."

The design load factor is based on the expected useful life of the vehicle at that load factor. You can exceed that load factor and it will reduce the life expectancy by some amount. That amount is reduced exponentially by the size of the overload.

These stresses are also cumulative. (Like work hardening a paper clip)

One big one can cause the wings to come off right away. Many small ones will make the wings come off at some future time (usually without warning).

Yes, you can drive down the road with a triple load of rocks in the bed; maybe more than once. Eventually, most likely on the way to the market, the axle will fall out of the truck.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:09 AM   #13
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I agree with HERK

HERK, I am also a Pilot (I've been Instrument-Rated since 1980) and we've all heard the old saying "that there are old pilots and their are bold pilots, but there are NO old-bold pilots". I don't know how many times I've been told (mostly by salesmen!!!) that I am over analytical and that I should trust their # years of experience. Well, personally, I don't like exceeding the so-called "built-in margins" unless I am in an emergency situation. I find it appalling how many people are out there driving their RV's in over-loaded condition. Besides endangering the lives of their own loved ones, what about the other innocents?
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:34 AM   #14
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Just to throw my hat into the fray, FR does provide you with all the info you need to figure out whether you can tow one of their RV's. You don't need to talk to an engineer (however, one should call you back). It's called the GVWR. If you use that number to base all your calculations from instead of the dry weight you'll be well within the limits of your combination. Just figure 12% TW off the GVWR and you'll know if your TV will handle it.

As for the dealer, there should be some kind of liability on their part for making sure the RV and TV matches, even if it's just a paper for you to sign saying you plan on towing said RV with X vehicle. The best scenario is to make them liable if you leave the lot towing something without the proper vehicle.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bama Rambler View Post
Just to throw my hat into the fray, FR does provide you with all the info you need to figure out whether you can tow one of their RV's. You don't need to talk to an engineer (however, one should call you back). It's called the GVWR. If you use that number to base all your calculations from instead of the dry weight you'll be well within the limits of your combination. Just figure 12% TW off the GVWR and you'll know if your TV will handle it.

As for the dealer, there should be some kind of liability on their part for making sure the RV and TV matches, even if it's just a paper for you to sign saying you plan on towing said RV with X vehicle. The best scenario is to make them liable if you leave the lot towing something without the proper vehicle.
Bama I think we will just agree, to disagree here. While the maximum tow-able weight (of the camper) is posted by the manufacturer, you still can not exceed the individual axle limits or the maximum gross vehicle weight on the truck. In my example, the manufacturer says I can safely tow a maximum of over 15,000 pounds with my SW GMC 2500 with diesel engine. Yet my tow vehicle is grossed out at 9200 pounds with a 9,300 pound 5th wheel camper due to the pin weight added to the truck's weight. My tow vehicle's gross weight is hit BEFORE my rear axle limit or the camper's weight.

As to the dealer certifying what you will do with that camper after you drag it off the lot? How will he know how much junk you are going to put in it or where you intend to drive it. Safely making it up and down I-95 is one thing, driving up the ALCAN is quite another.

The first time I loaded up my camper with "just might needs" I confidently headed over to the CAT scale and shocked myself half to death. The truck pulled the load just fine. Yet I not only overloaded the camper by over 1000 pounds, the truck was way over too.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:43 AM   #16
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I think we completely agree on it.
My statement meant that you should use the GVWR of the RV to base the calculations of whether your TV could safely tow it. You still have to know all the limits of your TV in order to make sure you don't exceed one. My point is that using the dry weight really tells you nothing because you're always going to exceed that and most people will be very close to the GVWR ,if not over, when loaded (as witnessed by your last statement).

The only thing having the dealer certify the setup does is stops them from telling you that your TV can tow anything on the lot and makes the buyer aware of the possibility of overloading. You can borrow a vehicle from a friend and go pick it up your new camper and then hook it to your '63 rambler once you get home but at least you're made aware that a dangerous situation could exist.

And since you brought up the "overloaded camper" scenario. I fully believe in having your RV and TV weighed fully loaded and ready to camp so that you are fully aware of any loading issues you may have. You should also re-weigh it anytime you make a significant change to the load.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:47 AM   #17
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Bingo!

Nicely said.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama Rambler View Post
I think we completely agree on it.
My statement meant that you should use the GVWR of the RV to base the calculations of whether your TV could safely tow it. You still have to know all the limits of your TV in order to make sure you don't exceed one. My point is that using the dry weight really tells you nothing because you're always going to exceed that and most people will be very close to the GVWR ,if not over, when loaded (as witnessed by your last statement).

The only thing having the dealer certify the setup does is stops them from telling you that your TV can tow anything on the lot and makes the buyer aware of the possibility of overloading. You can borrow a vehicle from a friend and go pick it up your new camper and then hook it to your '63 rambler once you get home but at least you're made aware that a dangerous situation could exist.

And since you brought up the "overloaded camper" scenario. I fully believe in having your RV and TV weighed fully loaded and ready to camp so that you are fully aware of any loading issues you may have. You should also re-weigh it anytime you make a significant change to the load.
I do not agree with this thinking at all. my TT has a 4000lb ccc. dry weight is 7100lbs and gvwr is 11,200lbs. going by the GVWR I couldn`t pull my TT with my X. my trailer loaded and ready for travel weighs in at 9100lbs +/- 100lbs. yes I weighed it! and the TW is 1200lbs.

to the OP, you have to load the trailer properly! you`re taking this isuue way to far and making it bigger than it needs to be. find a suitable hitch that`s able to fit on a `10 E350 V-10 and be done with it!
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama Rambler View Post
My point is that using the dry weight really tells you nothing because you're always going to exceed that and most people will be very close to the GVWR ,if not over, when loaded (as witnessed by your last statement).
I agree that dry weight is a poor indicator.
It's better than nothing until you get a chance to
weigh your new rig LOADED.
I agree that everyone should have their loaded trailer
weighed ASAP when it's new and if they've made big
changes in what they carry.
Around this part of the country truck scales are available
at truck fuel stops and easy to use.

I disagree with your statement that
"most people will be very close to the GVWR ,if not over, when loaded".

My trailer weighs in LOADED and ready to camp with
food, water, gear etc at less than 4500 LBS.
Add a 500 LB motorcycle and a couple of fairly slim middle age passengers and I'm still comfortably below my trucks
Cargo capacity of 8000 LBS.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:30 PM   #20
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just not their own facts.

I believe that exceeding the manufacturer's stated maximum weights, no matter how safe you think that is, will cause you trouble in the long run (maybe even the short run).
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