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Old 02-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #51
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Lpboy, I don't think you are asking for too much, and to suggest that buying a "cheap" RV means you have to accept faulty construction is silly. At a minimum, these units should not leak, frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart. Sadly, a lot of them seem to do one, or all three.
Some of us are very lucky with ours, and I often wonder what is the difference? It must be something as simple as the people who are putting these units together, as the construction doesn't vary that much.
I sure hope you can get this issue solved and it won't stop you from enjoying camping.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #52
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Thanks bakken ... exactly what i was thinking.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:29 PM   #53
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I don't think that we can engage manufacturers into a price war via our spending habits and expect every single unit to be flawless. I also think it is prudent to look an RV over thoroughly to ensure it isn't going to leak. The argument that vehicles don't leak and therefore campers shouldn't is illogical at best. A vehicle is not constructed of the same type of materials. How much do you think an RV would weigh(or cost) if built using the same type of construction methods as a car? An RV's roof, like it or not, has many exposed seams that must be sealed properly. I have gone back AFTER having previously resealed my roof and found new places that I found unsatisfactory. With the amount of seams and the speed at which manufacturers must produce them to be competitive(like it or not), it is not farfetched to assume that occasionally a spot might be missed. The way I see it, you have 3 options- spend a LOT of money on something with a different type of construction such as an Airstream(which I have heard of leaking, BTW), continue operating based upon how it should be instead of how it is and then deal with the headaches of being reactive instead of proactive, or accept how it is and take a small amount of time to do your own quality control. Also, vehicles do routinely run into warranty issues. Those issues are obviously different from RV's since they are an entirely different animal- but you can't complain about an RV having an issue and say cars don't have THAT issue when they have a set of their own.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:48 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakken View Post
Lpboy, I don't think you are asking for too much, and to suggest that buying a "cheap" RV means you have to accept faulty construction is silly. At a minimum, these units should not leak, frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart. Sadly, a lot of them seem to do one, or all three.
Some of us are very lucky with ours, and I often wonder what is the difference? It must be something as simple as the people who are putting these units together, as the construction doesn't vary that much.
I sure hope you can get this issue solved and it won't stop you from enjoying camping.
If you are going to throw out catastrophic failures such as "frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart.", I would have to agree with you- at least on those two. In my mind that is clearly something that can't be remedied with a little time and a caulk gun. I guess I just see the leak issue a little differently. Lot's of houses leak and they are built with much stronger, heavier materials and aren't moved. I don't think there is a single RV manufacturer out there that has NEVER had a leak, excepting maybe the very expensive rigs with fiberglass tops. So, with that knowledge, why not be a little proactive and check it out? We can keep shaking our fists saying it shouldn't be like this, but I don't see how it will do any good. I can think of any of a number of reasons an RV might start to leak, even if sealed from the factory properly, so I choose to regularly inspect mine and hopefully head off any problems before they start. Once again, I hope that this issue is resolved satisfactorily- but I still feel for the OP in having to go through this when chances are very good he could have solved this problem before it started for $8 and an hours work.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:42 PM   #55
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dustman, I don't think you know what type of camper this is, and the reason why it is leaking.
I have looked at these campers, and always wondered how they ALL didn't leak. I just think it is a poor design.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:36 AM   #56
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bakken,

You're right that I don't have any firsthand experience with this particular trailer. One reason I've always been leery of fiberglass trailers is because of the delam issue if there is ever a leak. I would be even more anal about checking my seams with a fiberglass trailer knowing that if there ever was a leak it would be a massive undertaking to fix all of the secondary damage. What exactly about this trailer makes it more prone to leak?
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #57
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The delam issue was not the source of the leak originally. The wall leak in the front was caused by improper installation by the dealer when the front wall was replaced. For what it's worth, I did look over every seam. I walked on the roof ... I took all the precautions that can be taken. The dealer replaced hatch seals twice. I didn't even know about the other two of the leaks until FR tore the cabinets out. I don't know what I would have done differently. You state that I could of saved my self some grief with a little "proactive" maintenance. I am very anal about everything I have. I just don't know that I could have prevented this. Again. Bad luck.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:48 AM   #58
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The delam issue was not the source of the leak originally. The wall leak in the front was caused by improper installation by the dealer when the front wall was replaced. For what it's worth, I did look over every seam. I walked on the roof ... I took all the precautions that can be taken. The dealer replaced hatch seals twice. I didn't even know about the other two of the leaks until FR tore the cabinets out. I don't know what I would have done differently. You state that I could of saved my self some grief with a little "proactive" maintenance. I am very anal about everything I have. I just don't know that I could have prevented this. Again. Bad luck.
Did they point out where the water was coming in from? I meant that a leak causes delam, not vice-versa. If you checked every seal thoroughly and still had a leak, then I would argue there is a definite design flaw somewhere. I apologize for assuming you didn't check seals out properly. In my experience, people tend to neglect seals and routine maintenance and then cry when something goes wrong- I attributed this to you unnecessarily apparently. Have you considered going to your dealer and talking about a trade? Give them a chance to make you an awesome deal on something else. I really hope you don't let this spoil you on RVing. You might check out the Puma line. They are metal sided, so no delam worries. My in-laws and I both bought new 2012's 1-1.5 years ago and we've been very pleased with them. We got ours from Kelly Tussing at RVWholesalers. Customer service has been awesome. This would require you to sell to an individual- but just be honest about the trailer and you've got nothing to feel guilty about in selling it. I know you'll take a hit- but if you can move on and be happy with something else it might be worth it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:31 AM   #59
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I think the RV industry is rather 'fly by night'.
Go look at ANY other industry - there are a few big players with 1/2 dozen brands. Weak players go out of business. A few high end specialty ones exist for those that want or can afford the best.

In no industry that I know of are there 50 brands of products. Trying to figure out who makes what, or why, or when is impossible.

When we started looking I found this confusing and illogical - asking for advice was less than useless - all I got was 'use your own best judgement'....so I'm supposed to be an engineer, consumer reports expert and more? Sorry, that's just wrong.

In the car world, appliance, computers, etc if you ask around you'll be told 'X brand is the low end, Y is the high end, Z is a pretty good value and avoid brand W' In the RV biz? Nope, not a chance of getting such a response.

Went to a few RV shows and it wasn't much better - the salesman all said the same thing when I asked "whats the diff between your model/brand and Model/brand Q" and well, there IS no difference apparently. I know more of what's different than those in the industry...pitiful really.

If the EXPERTS can't tell my why Brand A at $35k isn't better, and how/why it's better, than Brand B at $21k then as a consumer I'm gonna buy Brand B. The only diff I say (but none were pointed out) were longer warranties, alum 'fenders' vs plastic, fancier counters. All used the same floor, roof, tires, axles doors, switches, appliances, etc - unless you went really high end.

Typical of the industry I think are the electronics - concertone, et al. When was the last time you had a car radio die? Home stereo? TV? And you use them a lot more than your camper version.

Our camper radio has never worked right. There were (and still are) missing vent hoses on our camper. Knock on particle board, we've had no issues other than those - no leaks, everything works, nothing has fallen off.

But as an industry...the RV world is a shell game IMO.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:32 AM   #60
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I've been a auto mechanic for nearly 20 years, I know it's a little different, but hear me out. Sometimes there are cars that were "built on Monday." Meaning, you have a lemon. It's happens to all car lines, so I'm sure it happens to Surveyor as well. I think you need to try and get out of your camper and into a new one. If all you said is happening, you'll have nothing but problem with this one. You'll fix one, and other one will pop up. It's always going to be a headache.
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