I have had it.

[Lpboy]

I am a member and sent a request for assistance a couple of weeks ago but have not heard anything.

[MilCop4523]

I wonder how many requests they get. then again they may be investigating into the matter based on what you've sent them for information and evidence. Sometimes the more detailed you lead out of the gate with the easier it makes it for them to go at the manufacturer.

accurate evidence is always good.

[Lpboy]

You know I guess I come into this industry a bit blind. Usually I research something to death but I am shocked at how the RV industry operates. It seems to me its about selling as many units as possible as cheaply made as possible with enough service behind it to barely get you by. The fact that we have to "deal" with these types of issues really amazes me. Case in point, I have had major leaks. The dealer finally says send it back to FR. FR says that they will fix but this has gone on for way to long. Come to find out that some of the latest leaks was caused by the dealer fixing a delam issue (A piece of wood left between the skin and wall - how did that get thru QC?). Dealer says we can possibly find someone that will buy it but we have enough inventory ... FR says well the dealer has taken the profit on the unit ... they should deal with it. Back and forth. We don't deserve to take such a hit on this trailer. I know in my business, this would never work. Now ... what if this was a brand new Ford F-150 that arrived with a bent frame (same type of issue) ... how many people would let that issue go on that long. Its a shame that lemon laws cover the powertrains of RVs and not the "other stuff that leaks, breaks etc ..."

I have tried to take the high road on this ... I really have. Maybe I am too nice.

[comfun1]

You might try contacting your state's attorney's general office for assistance.

[Lpboy]

I may do that. Thank you.

[MilCop4523]

lol but not funny. Purchased a 2012 FOCUS with 250 kms on it (transfer from another dealer. Had problems on the drive home.
Took a year to get Manufacturer to accept defeat in facts and purchase the car back from us and write the remainder of the loan off.
We in Canada dont have the lemon law protections you do in the states unfortunately.

Stick with it. Dont loose all hope despite it being discouraging.
Sometimes it takes a long time to get things resolved. (personally - 9 years for a military injury to be identified and corrected and in 20 minutes a US specialist finds the problem.)

I have what looks like a section of male anatomy under my roof membrane. so I hear you on the QC issues.
Issue FR a dead line. 14 days is generally enough time when they have had it this long. Send everything again from the start registered mail signature required. dont use emails. then go to the Attorney Generals office if thats where your state deals with items.
Everything in NB is covered under what we call the Consumer products warranties and liabilities act which denotes that all things sold New and or Used are to be functionable for their intended purpose for a determined period of time. A judge relies upon the industry standards for servicability of bith a new and or used item.
You must have something similar where you live.

[Lpboy]

I wonder if I should go up higher at FR? Does anyone have a contact with someone at FR that could help. Higher than warranty?

[comfun1]

One thing I have found to be helpful and difficult to be ignored is a paper trail. Today you can use actual paper, emails and sometimes text messages. I recommend you put all of your communications in paper or email (no phone calls) and begin an informal log on your computer with dates and content of your messages. When you have to communicate with the next person you will have the facts ready for them. When others have to communicate with you through paper or email most recognize they are leaving a trail that may come back to bite them. Another thing that in some instances is of value is to send copies to all parties concerned or involved. Keep it positive and polite. Let them know you are in it together. Ask them, "What can I do to help or facilitate this matter? Is there someone I can contact?" This will let them know that you may be talking to others without sounding hostile. I like to end each of my communications with a question that requires an answer. If you don't receive an answer in a resonable length of time you can rephrase your question and ask again. A failure to respond on their part over time, can be used to demonstrate a reluctance or refusal to help you with your issue. Good luck and keep us up to date.

[dustman_stx]

Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but we get what we demand through our buying habits. There are options out there with the quality control you are looking for- they are the 80K Airstreams. But, notice, you purchased a trailer that was much cheaper. They could spend the time and effort to go over every nook and cranny with a fine tooth comb- but very few would pay for it, and the guy down the street would get them out as quickly as possible and sell way more trailers. Now, I'm not saying you got what you deserve- your troubles are much more severe than what most experience. I do feel for you and I hope FR comes through like they should. But, at the same time, if you expect a phenomenal level of QC, be ready to pay for it. I understood that my camper was built as quickly as possible when I purchased it. That's why I climbed on the roof and started checking the seams and then checked the window seams to ensure I had no places for the potential of leaks. I could have paid a LOT of money for that type of oversight- but chose to save money and do it myself. If it were me, I'd get it fixed and then trade it in. Don't let this deter you from RVing. And, when you get your new one, take an hour and a tube of Dicor and check every seam. I hope this post doesn't sound heartless or condescending as that is not my intent. By the way, my skylights leaked also. I took out the screws on the interior panel and then caught the water- nothing got wet or damaged. Used Dicor sealant to fix the leak the next day.

[Lpboy]

Thanks for the reply. This is exactly my point with what this industry has conditioned everyone to accept. I understand that its not an airstream. I just simply want a trailer that doesn't leak. Going back to the car example, would anyone be satisfied with ANY car from the cheapest to the most expensive that leaks. Of course not. Most come off the line and do not leak I suspect. At the very least, a camper should be a solid leak free structure where most things operate as expected. I believe that regardless of the price you pay for an item, there are certain standards of quality that should be maintained. Just about everyone I have spoken to has in some way had to fix a leak or a faulty electrical circuit etc ... Now I am a very understanding person, I know that lightweight materials are generally cheaply made by other manufacturers than Forest River. I can say that the warranty department has been working with me. They have also been very honest when they found additional leaks that I didn't even know about. (City water, hot water heater etc) Maybe its JUST my trailer (I suspect not). I have always said that if I didn't have bad luck, I would have none.

I will say that the experience that I have had with my dealer is not one that instills much confidence in the industry.

[bakken]

Lpboy, I don't think you are asking for too much, and to suggest that buying a "cheap" RV means you have to accept faulty construction is silly. At a minimum, these units should not leak, frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart. Sadly, a lot of them seem to do one, or all three.
Some of us are very lucky with ours, and I often wonder what is the difference? It must be something as simple as the people who are putting these units together, as the construction doesn't vary that much.
I sure hope you can get this issue solved and it won't stop you from enjoying camping.

[Lpboy]

Thanks bakken ... exactly what i was thinking.

[dustman_stx]

I don't think that we can engage manufacturers into a price war via our spending habits and expect every single unit to be flawless. I also think it is prudent to look an RV over thoroughly to ensure it isn't going to leak. The argument that vehicles don't leak and therefore campers shouldn't is illogical at best. A vehicle is not constructed of the same type of materials. How much do you think an RV would weigh(or cost) if built using the same type of construction methods as a car? An RV's roof, like it or not, has many exposed seams that must be sealed properly. I have gone back AFTER having previously resealed my roof and found new places that I found unsatisfactory. With the amount of seams and the speed at which manufacturers must produce them to be competitive(like it or not), it is not farfetched to assume that occasionally a spot might be missed. The way I see it, you have 3 options- spend a LOT of money on something with a different type of construction such as an Airstream(which I have heard of leaking, BTW), continue operating based upon how it should be instead of how it is and then deal with the headaches of being reactive instead of proactive, or accept how it is and take a small amount of time to do your own quality control. Also, vehicles do routinely run into warranty issues. Those issues are obviously different from RV's since they are an entirely different animal- but you can't complain about an RV having an issue and say cars don't have THAT issue when they have a set of their own.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by bakken

Lpboy, I don't think you are asking for too much, and to suggest that buying a "cheap" RV means you have to accept faulty construction is silly. At a minimum, these units should not leak, frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart. Sadly, a lot of them seem to do one, or all three.
Some of us are very lucky with ours, and I often wonder what is the difference? It must be something as simple as the people who are putting these units together, as the construction doesn't vary that much.
I sure hope you can get this issue solved and it won't stop you from enjoying camping.

If you are going to throw out catastrophic failures such as "frames/axles should not bend or fail, and they should not fall apart.", I would have to agree with you- at least on those two. In my mind that is clearly something that can't be remedied with a little time and a caulk gun. I guess I just see the leak issue a little differently. Lot's of houses leak and they are built with much stronger, heavier materials and aren't moved. I don't think there is a single RV manufacturer out there that has NEVER had a leak, excepting maybe the very expensive rigs with fiberglass tops. So, with that knowledge, why not be a little proactive and check it out? We can keep shaking our fists saying it shouldn't be like this, but I don't see how it will do any good. I can think of any of a number of reasons an RV might start to leak, even if sealed from the factory properly, so I choose to regularly inspect mine and hopefully head off any problems before they start. Once again, I hope that this issue is resolved satisfactorily- but I still feel for the OP in having to go through this when chances are very good he could have solved this problem before it started for $8 and an hours work.

[bakken]

dustman, I don't think you know what type of camper this is, and the reason why it is leaking.
I have looked at these campers, and always wondered how they ALL didn't leak. I just think it is a poor design.

[dustman_stx]

bakken,

You're right that I don't have any firsthand experience with this particular trailer. One reason I've always been leery of fiberglass trailers is because of the delam issue if there is ever a leak. I would be even more anal about checking my seams with a fiberglass trailer knowing that if there ever was a leak it would be a massive undertaking to fix all of the secondary damage. What exactly about this trailer makes it more prone to leak?

[Lpboy]

The delam issue was not the source of the leak originally. The wall leak in the front was caused by improper installation by the dealer when the front wall was replaced. For what it's worth, I did look over every seam. I walked on the roof ... I took all the precautions that can be taken. The dealer replaced hatch seals twice. I didn't even know about the other two of the leaks until FR tore the cabinets out. I don't know what I would have done differently. You state that I could of saved my self some grief with a little "proactive" maintenance. I am very anal about everything I have. I just don't know that I could have prevented this. Again. Bad luck.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Lpboy

The delam issue was not the source of the leak originally. The wall leak in the front was caused by improper installation by the dealer when the front wall was replaced. For what it's worth, I did look over every seam. I walked on the roof ... I took all the precautions that can be taken. The dealer replaced hatch seals twice. I didn't even know about the other two of the leaks until FR tore the cabinets out. I don't know what I would have done differently. You state that I could of saved my self some grief with a little "proactive" maintenance. I am very anal about everything I have. I just don't know that I could have prevented this. Again. Bad luck.

Did they point out where the water was coming in from? I meant that a leak causes delam, not vice-versa. If you checked every seal thoroughly and still had a leak, then I would argue there is a definite design flaw somewhere. I apologize for assuming you didn't check seals out properly. In my experience, people tend to neglect seals and routine maintenance and then cry when something goes wrong- I attributed this to you unnecessarily apparently. Have you considered going to your dealer and talking about a trade? Give them a chance to make you an awesome deal on something else. I really hope you don't let this spoil you on RVing. You might check out the Puma line. They are metal sided, so no delam worries. My in-laws and I both bought new 2012's 1-1.5 years ago and we've been very pleased with them. We got ours from Kelly Tussing at RVWholesalers. Customer service has been awesome. This would require you to sell to an individual- but just be honest about the trailer and you've got nothing to feel guilty about in selling it. I know you'll take a hit- but if you can move on and be happy with something else it might be worth it.

[prof_fate]

I think the RV industry is rather 'fly by night'.
Go look at ANY other industry - there are a few big players with 1/2 dozen brands. Weak players go out of business. A few high end specialty ones exist for those that want or can afford the best.

In no industry that I know of are there 50 brands of products. Trying to figure out who makes what, or why, or when is impossible.

When we started looking I found this confusing and illogical - asking for advice was less than useless - all I got was 'use your own best judgement'....so I'm supposed to be an engineer, consumer reports expert and more? Sorry, that's just wrong.

In the car world, appliance, computers, etc if you ask around you'll be told 'X brand is the low end, Y is the high end, Z is a pretty good value and avoid brand W' In the RV biz? Nope, not a chance of getting such a response.

Went to a few RV shows and it wasn't much better - the salesman all said the same thing when I asked "whats the diff between your model/brand and Model/brand Q" and well, there IS no difference apparently. I know more of what's different than those in the industry...pitiful really.

If the EXPERTS can't tell my why Brand A at $35k isn't better, and how/why it's better, than Brand B at $21k then as a consumer I'm gonna buy Brand B. The only diff I say (but none were pointed out) were longer warranties, alum 'fenders' vs plastic, fancier counters. All used the same floor, roof, tires, axles doors, switches, appliances, etc - unless you went really high end.

Typical of the industry I think are the electronics - concertone, et al. When was the last time you had a car radio die? Home stereo? TV? And you use them a lot more than your camper version.

Our camper radio has never worked right. There were (and still are) missing vent hoses on our camper. Knock on particle board, we've had no issues other than those - no leaks, everything works, nothing has fallen off.

But as an industry...the RV world is a shell game IMO.

[Wolfpacker76]

I've been a auto mechanic for nearly 20 years, I know it's a little different, but hear me out. Sometimes there are cars that were "built on Monday." Meaning, you have a lemon. It's happens to all car lines, so I'm sure it happens to Surveyor as well. I think you need to try and get out of your camper and into a new one. If all you said is happening, you'll have nothing but problem with this one. You'll fix one, and other one will pop up. It's always going to be a headache.