suburban water heater

bobothewizard · 07-25-2016, 06:43 PM

Currently own a 2012 forest river surveyor and i am having some issues with the surburban water heater, its not heating the water. Changed the heating element last week and it still didnt heat the water. Was going to change the thermostat this weekend when we go up but i have a quick question. When i changed the heating element out it was a 1440w element and i put in a 1500w heating element from lowes, is this ok to do or should i change it back to the 1440w element instead of the 1500w?

Toddupton · 07-25-2016, 06:52 PM

That's fine but instead of changing parts get a $10 meter and see what is wrong first. Do you have power to it? Is a high limit tripped? Is the switch bad? Lots of things it could be.

**Mr. Dan** · 07-25-2016, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddupton

That's fine but instead of changing parts get a $10 meter and see what is wrong first. Do you have power to it? Is a high limit tripped? Is the switch bad? Lots of things it could be.

X2 A meter would tell if the switch is bad or if the outlet has no power or ....

bobothewizard · 07-26-2016, 05:17 AM

I will run over to harbor freight this week and grab one but i will have to watch some youtube videos because i have no idea how to use one.

**Flybob** · 07-26-2016, 06:06 AM

Just above the outside on/off switch there are two black circles ( over temp protection) about the size of a nickle. Push each one fairly hard. If either one of them clicks (you can feel it) it was tripped so try the WH again.

bobothewizard · 07-28-2016, 07:38 AM

Harbor freight is awesome, got a multimeter for like $6. So when i check the different parts, how do i know what is working and what is not? Is it based on if power is going to the piece?

For instance when i check the thermostat, if it has voltage going to it how would i know if its bad or not?

I knew i should have taken electrical engineering in college

Asrabbit · 07-28-2016, 07:54 AM

It depends on what you are attempting to check. For example, to check the heating element you want to know you have continuity, (meaning a current will flow completely through the element). If you want to check that power is getting to the element, then you are going to check for voltage. I guess I would start at the end of the line and work my way backwards. You should look on line and get schematic of the unit. Most people can figure out the flow without have to know everything about it. Start by checking the element, even though it is new. Then check to see if you have power to it. If not, check whatever the schematic shows before the element until you get to your switch.

bobothewizard · 07-28-2016, 02:44 PM

I will see if i can find one. One thing that puzzles me though is i am assuming that if the thermostat was bad the gas portion would not work either. Because we tried it with gas last weekend and that worked just not when using the electric part. Was weird to me.

Asrabbit · 07-28-2016, 03:22 PM

I don't believe the two share the same thermostat. A schematic would tell you.

Asrabbit · 07-28-2016, 03:28 PM

Actually I am looking at a schematic and it looks like the thermostat is shared. Check to see if you have voltage from the module board at element.

added

It looks to me like there is a black wire coming into the switch that should have voltage at all times, (in other words it is always hot if the power is on and you should always get a reading from it). The wire going out of the switch is also black and it should have voltage when the switch is in the on position. That wire goes to the thermostat. So, if the switch is on, you should have voltage at the thermostat. There is a black wire going out of your thermostat to your element. It should have voltage if the water in the tank is below the low limit of the thermostat.
You need to check for voltage at each of these areas one area at a time. If you do not have voltage to your switch, then nothing beyond that is going to work. If you do, follow that to the next step.
If you need help via a telephone call, send me a message and I would be happy to assist you.

ShermanD · 07-28-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobothewizard

Harbor freight is awesome, got a multimeter for like $6. So when i check the different parts, how do i know what is working and what is not? Is it based on if power is going to the piece?

For instance when i check the thermostat, if it has voltage going to it how would i know if its bad or not?

I knew i should have taken electrical engineering in college

YOU actually pay for their multimeter!!!

I probably got a half dozen lying around all FREE. Go to their website and sign up for their mailing list. you get emails, online coupons, monthly mailing. Usually the only way to get their 25% off coupon is via an email.
You can also look in any home do it magazine, Sunday coupon flyer, etc and get free coupons. some with no purchase necessary, most with any purchase. Then there is always the 20% off coupon. good for the highest price item even if it is on sale or you have a special pricing coupon for it.
Normal freebies include 25ft tape measure, scissors, flashlight, screwdriver set, the multimeter, and assorted other things.
BTW they do sell their deep well impact lockets in the standard lug nut sizes individually. you can also get breaker bars on sale.

Then the best part of it all is they offer $6.99 shipping on most orders.
I paid $6.99 to have them ship a 20 ton bottle jack and their 12 ton jack stands. got em both on sale and used a 25& off the jack stands. I also had a coupon for a free multi meter that order.
BTW although though their hand tools are imports, they are lifetime guaranteed

Asrabbit · 07-28-2016, 03:57 PM

I found this and it is a fairly simple representation of the circuit that should help you determine your problem.

**KyDan** · 07-28-2016, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobothewizard

i have a quick question. When i changed the heating element out it was a 1440w element and i put in a 1500w heating element from lowes, is this ok to do or should i change it back to the 1440w element instead of the 1500w?

WHAT is the rated VOLTAGE on the 1500 element you purchased???
IF you installed a 240v element- that won't work very well.
It must be a 120v element.
Also as others have said you need to check for 120v AC AT the element
screws.
Be CAREFUL. If you don't feel confident doing this pay a pro or at least ask
a knowledgeable person in the neighborhood.

bobothewizard · 07-29-2016, 05:57 AM

You guys are amazing, seriously look at all the help. It truly is awesome!

So looking at the schematic it doesnt seem as complicated as i thought. It really is only a positive and negative wire broken by a switch on the negative

The heating element was a 120v element. So if the thermostat is the same for both electric and gas i will assume, for now, the thermostat is good.

So for the first steps tonight when i get to tbe camper is check to make sure power is getting to the element, then if not check to see if the thermostat has power then back to the switch.

I did call a local rv dealer and they wanted to charge $180 just for the ride, that didnt include parts and labor. I will try to figure it out myself. For that price i could just change the thermostat and switch out and be done.

**KyDan** · 07-29-2016, 06:04 AM

Please post your model number!
I believe you have a separate thermostat for gas and another for electric.
It's very possible that your electric thermostat is tripped or burned out.
The only way to tell is to measure voltage -at- the heating element.
IE- place a meter set on AC volts across the 2 screws where the wires
connect to the element.

There might be units out there with one thermostat for gas and electric but
my current and previous 3 trailers HAD SEPARATE THERMOSTATS.
Measure volts at the heating element!

Be careful and good luck!

bobothewizard · 07-29-2016, 06:45 AM

kydan, i will do that tonight. I was sitting here thinking about it and i think you are right with the different thermostats. i will post a model number over the weekend. Come to think of it when i pushed the reset switch last weekend i didnt try to push it hard at all, maybe i just need to push it a little harder, thats the first thing i will try tonight when i arrive.

elind · 07-29-2016, 06:48 AM

The gas side may use 12 volts for thermostat & controls because it will work without 120ac hooked up to the RV.

**KyDan** · 07-29-2016, 09:39 AM

Yes it uses 12v for the control board which controls LP gas side.
The 120V AC heater is independent and consists of a thermostat/hi-limit
cut out/fusable link in series with a rocker off on switch.
I had an element burn out once and it also blew the fusable link on the thermostat/hi limit.
I had to purchase new T-stat and heater element. I found best price for
T-stat/hi limit on Ebay and best price for heater element at Home Depot.

Others have found the rocker switch was defective/burned out/corroded and
still others have found the unit un-plugged. Yes your hot water heater is most likely plugged into a single 120v outlet found in the rear of the tank area. Check there and make sure you actually have 120 V at the outlet and that you are securely plugged in!

Unfortunately the only good way to check for voltage at the heater element is to remove the burner assembly then remove the cover and check voltage at the screws on the heater element itself.

Good luck!
Be CAREFUL!