True dry weight of SP275?

[clarkgriswold]

We're thinking of buying a Surveyor SP275 but I'm worried that it won't be close to the advertised spec of 3985 lbs dry weight. Does anyone know what the dry weight of their SP275 really is?

[TURBS]

Always error to the heavy side.
uvw does not include dealer installed options.
such as propane tanks full of propane.
sometimes jacks
tvs
battery
spare tire possibly
It all adds up fast and if your close at dry weight you'll most likely be over at delivery.
Imho

[KyDan]

Recently saw a new Jay Feather.
It had a tag on the inside of the screen door that listed
the weight and it specifically said with full LP.
Then it gave the weight of the water and finally the remaining cargo capacity.

Don't know if all new trailers have this kind of tag but it's a great idea if the
numbers are right!

Have you looked at the weight tags on the trailer you're interested in?

[clarkgriswold]

We're just now 'sort of' settling on the SP275 so I haven't specifically looked at one. We've looked at many other TTs though and I'm well aware of the labels placed on them. I've found that MOST of them are within a few hundred pounds of the spec weights. Now a days it's much more common for many less things being installed by dealer so most of the labels I'm told are pretty accurate (disregarding LP, etc).

What I'm trying to do now is elliminate the ones that just won't work. The Sp275 seems to spec weight of 3950 lbs is a little over 1000 lbs below my tow limit. But I really don't want to get much above 4000ish.

[Triguy]

My stickered dry weight was 330lbs over the brochure's listed dry weight because of the options I added when ordering. Add in two 6-volt batteries and propane and the dry weight is even higher.

In your case, I would plan that the trailer will weigh several hundred lbs more than the brochure weight coming out of the factory and then add in batteries and your cargo. The "towing" weight for your trailer when its ready to go camping will probably be close to your TV's limit of 5,000 lbs.

[donn]

If you are that close to the "dry" weight then loaded ready there is no way you will be able to tow it. To be sure always error on the heavy side. In other words, look at the trailers GVWR. That is the number your TV needs to pull around. Not some mystical "dry" or "shipping" number.

[clarkgriswold]

My tow rating is a little over 5000lbs w/o weight distributing hitch. The TTs I'm looking at are about 4000lbs dry weight/unloaded weight. I'm good if I can find out how close the actual unloaded weights have been to the spec given. Based on other models, the delivered weight is about 300 to 400lbs of listed dry weight.

Using the trailer GVWR is absolutely NOT the number to use. It is a rating based on axle capacity, trailer frame, etc. It can be as much as twice the actual weight (dry, unladened, unloaded, loaded or otherwise). It is simply the absolute maximum weight the trailer could carry based on the components of the trailer. One could look at it as the ability to carry cargo and for some models in the 4000lb range that would give you 2000++lbs of cargo. Not realistic for any normal camper I've meet. A typical cargo weight would be more in the 400 - 750lb range for a 24ish foot trailer.

[donn]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

My tow rating is a little over 5000lbs w/o weight distributing hitch. The TTs I'm looking at are about 4000lbs dry weight/unloaded weight. I'm good if I can find out how close the actual unloaded weights have been to the spec given. Based on other models, the delivered weight is about 300 to 400lbs of listed dry weight.

Using the trailer GVWR is absolutely NOT the number to use. It is a rating based on axle capacity, trailer frame, etc. It can be as much as twice the actual weight (dry, unladened, unloaded, loaded or otherwise). It is simply the absolute maximum weight the trailer could carry based on the components of the trailer. One could look at it as the ability to carry cargo and for some models in the 4000lb range that would give you 2000++lbs of cargo. Not realistic for any normal camper I've meet. A typical cargo weight would be more in the 400 - 750lb range for a 24ish foot trailer.

OH so sorry to disagree with you. Terms like "dry" or "shipping" are totally meaningless. No one ever tow a trailer that will be even close to those mystical numbers. Since it is almost impossible to calculate the weight of things a person may or may not put in the trailer how can you even figure what you actual camping weight is? With no other information a person should always use the GVWR to determine what your maximum loaded ready to camp weight will be. At least using that number a person will never have too little tow vehicle. Not like your theory of using some mystical number to try and determine how much a trailer might weigh.

[clarkgriswold]

We're not going to agree but I'll state it briefly.

If you use GVWR of the TT you'll be vastly over estimating. I will agree that if you use it you're TV will never have an issue. But that's not really practical to 'over design' at the cost it can create.

Weights are accurate if you understand what they are measuring. Today's mfg place actual weights w/o cargo but do include standard equipment. Standard equipment on today's TTs includes A/C and other heavier items. A reasonable approach is to use mfg weight (dry weight), add dealer installs (LP, batteries, etc), and the add a reasonable cargo weight. What I'm looking for is what some people have found their TT to weight 'off the lot' ....w/o cargo. I can quickly estimate cargo. If that figure is even close to the TT GVWR you've bought an underdesigned TT or have way too much cargo for the typical traveller.

Again, I don't think we'll agree but I hope your travels are safe and happy.

[donn]

And using your idea is going to send people in to under rated TV's for the load they actually have. This stuff is not rocket science. It is however crucial to have sufficient TV for the intended load. Making wild guesses is not prudent for 99% of the people who post/read these forums. And advising them to use unrealistic terms like "dry" or "shipping" will only lead them down a path toward a costly mistake. You can do what you choose as I will. I do not expect to convince you that you are wrong, however consider the fact, "dry" weight is a number placed on the unit at the time it was designed, maybe the first unit off the assembly line. But more likely it is a calculated number based on the assumed weights of the individual components. These numbers are notoriously inaccurate and should never be used. I do understand that manufacturers have started adding a weight as it supposedly comes off the assembly. Again that number is not going to be very accurate. Add a couple hundred pounds of food, clothes not to mention dishes, TV, maybe a second TV a satellite receiver, a satellite dish, oh don't forget the awning and then go get an accurate weight as the trailer is ready to camp. I would be very surprised if you are not actually very close to the trailers GVWR. So why not simply forgo all the hassles and use the GVWR as a base line for what you will be towing?

[bikendan]

using the GVWR can work both ways.
some models have huge CCC's and will have a wide gap between the fictional "dry" weight and the GVWR.
and some models, especially smaller models, have miserable CCC's to get their GVWR down as far as possible.

the most recommended towing figure is the 80% number. the reality is that if you are over the 80% of your TV's tow capacity, you'll be unhappy.
you haven't mentioned what you're towing with, so that makes it more difficult to post better info.

the tongue weight of the 275 will easily be over 550lbs., when loaded for camping. that will surely be over the tongue capacity of a tow vehicle with a tow capacity of around 5000lbs, even with a WDH.

the 275 is nearly 29' long. depending on your tow vehicle, that could be an issue too.

i tow a trailer with similar specs and it's 4 feet shorter. my Avalanche has a tow capacity of 7200lbs., a ton more than yours.
i would never tow a trailer heavier or much longer with it.
but i live in California and we have lots of mountains to deal with.
if i lived in Kansas or Florida, maybe i would go bigger.

[Terier]

I'm going to jump in here with my two cents. Sounds like the OP is aware & understand the various numbers and how it comes into play. While I don't totally agree with the viewpoint I do understand where the OP is coming from.

Whether or not this will be ok (safe - within towing range) will depend on actual weight when fully loaded for a trip including family members. Of course, this is the same for using GVWR number as well.


My trailer dry weight is 3631 + CCC 3656 = 7287 lb. This is where I can see where the op viewpoint as I will not be near the GVWR. I camp solo, 1-5 nights,with full hookups and keep eveything down to a minimum.

For the record I do belong to the "GVWR" camp.

[shineysideup]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

We're thinking of buying a Surveyor SP275 but I'm worried that it won't be close to the advertised spec of 3985 lbs dry weight. Does anyone know what the dry weight of their SP275 really is?

I don't own a 275 but I do own a 235rks. My trailer "started at" 3850 lbs. If you ready the Forest River brochures you will find that the "interior package" adds approx. 220 lbs., the "exterior package" adds another 240 lbs. This still doesn't jive with the yellow sticker that is on the inside of the entrance door stating the trailer weighs 4472 lbs. When I shopped trailers I also checked the weight of the 291, it was right around 4900 lbs (with the options it had). The 275 is going to fall in between these two numbers.

Now, for your tow vehicle;

what's the wheelbase?

what kind of rear overhang does it have?

How many gears in the tranny?

Independent suspension?

Now for the trailer;

Does it have torsion suspension? (I don't know if the "SP" line of surveyors do) I ask this for two reasons, torsion suspension provides a softer ride while each wheel operates independently of each other and usually provides a lower ride height for the trailer.

The front slope is better than some but there is much better designs out now (gulf stream visa etc.)

Where are the tanks located?

Does the person setting up the weight distribution/sway control actually know what they are talking about? (dealer?)

While tow vehicles and trailers can have the exact same "ratings", the tow experience can be night and day. Better RV dealers will let you test tow before you buy.

Ask lots of questions, get informed answers. No, I don't believe tow ratings are set by actual ability. Marketing, durability etc. all play a part of the assigned tow rating for a vehicle.

Happy camping,

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by donn

I do understand that manufacturers have started adding a weight as it supposedly comes off the assembly. .... Add a couple hundred pounds of food, clothes not to mention dishes, TV, maybe a second TV a satellite receiver, a satellite dish, oh don't forget the awning and then go get an accurate weight as the trailer is ready to camp. ....

Virtually all mfgs now place the 'as shipped' weight on their TTs. Your suggestion to add 'various' weight to that number is correct. We'll agree on that point.

If some choose to use the GVWR, it'll work perfect if they plan on loading their TT to its design limit (I don't). Unreasonable at best....dangerous at worst. I'll agree though, they'll have a awesome tow vehicle and an accident waiting to happen dragging behind them.

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by shineysideup

I don't own a 275 but I do own a 235rks. My trailer "started at" 3850 lbs. If you ready the Forest River brochures you will find that the "interior package" adds approx. 220 lbs., the "exterior package" adds another 240 lbs. This still doesn't jive with the yellow sticker that is on the inside of the entrance door stating the trailer weighs 4472 lbs. When I shopped trailers I also checked the weight of the 291, it was right around 4900 lbs (with the options it had). The 275 is going to fall in between these two numbers.

Now, for your tow vehicle;

what's the wheelbase? I agree that's a factor. I've used every 'rule of thumb' there is and it's good for tip-to-tip of the 275....just barely.

what kind of rear overhang does it have? 4.10 lowest on vehicle

How many gears in the tranny?

Independent suspension? yep

Now for the trailer;

Does it have torsion suspension? (I don't know if the "SP" line of surveyors do) I ask this for two reasons, torsion suspension provides a softer ride while each wheel operates independently of each other and usually provides a lower ride height for the trailer. That will depend on which TT I go with.

The front slope is better than some but there is much better designs out now (gulf stream visa etc.) Yep, that's what I'm looking for.

Where are the tanks located? Will depend on TT choosen. But running on low tanks can reduce that affect on hitch.

Does the person setting up the weight distribution/sway control actually know what they are talking about? (dealer?) Done it before myself on TT. Already had 2 popups, TT, 2 MHs.

While tow vehicles and trailers can have the exact same "ratings", the tow experience can be night and day. Better RV dealers will let you test tow before you buy. Not that many 'good' RV dealers out there! LOL

Ask lots of questions, get informed answers. No, I don't believe tow ratings are set by actual ability. Marketing, durability etc. all play a part of the assigned tow rating for a vehicle.

Happy camping,

Gave a few answer in the quote. Life is so much easier when the TV isn't a real consideration.

[lbrjet]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

Virtually all mfgs now place the 'as shipped' weight on their TTs. Your suggestion to add 'various' weight to that number is correct. We'll agree on that point.

If some choose to use the GVWR, it'll work perfect if they plan on loading their TT to its design limit (I don't). Unreasonable at best....dangerous at worst. I'll agree though, they'll have a awesome tow vehicle and an accident waiting to happen dragging behind them.

The as shipped weight doesn't include propane and the battery. Add another 100lbs approx for the drive off the lot weight.

You are absolutely correct to figure a few hundred lbs. more than the brochure weight. Your best bet is to find one somewhere and get the sticker weight. Even then there can still be a variance of +/- 100lbs or so for identical trailers.

[bikendan]

clarkgriswold, what's the tongue capacity, with WDH, for your TV?

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

The as shipped weight doesn't include propane and the battery. Add another 100lbs approx for the drive off the lot weight.

You are absolutely correct to figure a few hundred lbs. more than the brochure weight. Your best bet is to find one somewhere and get the sticker weight. Even then there can still be a variance of +/- 100lbs or so for identical trailers.

Actually I think 'brochure weight' plus a few hundred lbs is a good estimate.

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by bikendan

clarkgriswold, what's the tongue capacity, with WDH, for your TV?

Per ford literature it states 770lbs with WD hitch. But not comfy with that information though since that would exceed the specific info for my vehicle (approx 550 lbs).

[Snowman53]

A "Junior Member's" perspective. We have a new SP 240 with a dry weight of just over 4,000 lbs. With batteries, propane, fresh water, and gear for two we are at 5,000 - 5,500 I figure. Towing with a Suburban 1500 4WD (an oldie but a goodie 2001 with 173,000 miles on factory original drivetrain. Suburban has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs. No problems (basically) with 2,300 mile trip to PA and back to MN just ended. 65 - 75 mph on the interstate/turnpikes in 3rd gear with tow/haul activated. In PA had to have trailer pulled to a service garage when factory original fuel pump on the truck died. The tow guy had a Ford F350 with a diesel and allison 6 speed transmission. Pulled the SP 240 with absolute ease and no equalizer hitch. Just dropped it on the ball and drove away. Bottom line for me: Have plenty of margin in your tow vehicle! Cutting it close is a recipe for a stress filled ride with the possibility of catastrophic (or other bad) failure which will ruin your trip(s). No fun. Leave plenty of room. I am debating between a new Suburban 2500 or a Silverado 2500 4 door with maybe a diesel. We will see. I will try the 1500s with the new 6 speed transmission just to see if they are really that good. But, have to wear out the 2001 first (besides I happen to like it and especially like not having payments to make on it for like, many years...).