Horrible first experience

[bakken]

Originally Posted by Lynkage

There are custom Work and Play trailers out there (typically by equestrian makers) that are made to exactly what you want.

A goosneck horse trailer to start, then made into what you need.
Just a suggestion.

A place here in Denver called Five R does them.

That does sound like the best bet, get one custom built with the living quarters in the back, and the cargo area up front.

[dustman_stx]

Lynk and bakken are on the right track. Many horse and stock trailers have the axles much farther back than a toy hauler. This would mean the cargo area could be to the rear, but when you loaded the cargo area, the axles would take the weight as opposed to creating a lever effect using the axles as a fulcrum if the load were to be behind the axles. Or have the cargo area up front. I think with having the axles back and the cargo to the rear, you'd have a high pin weight unloaded, whereas with bakken's idea of placing cargo up front, you'd have a much higher pin weight when loaded. Either way, with that amount of load you are talking, I think you are gonna be in 1 ton DRW territory.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Lynk and bakken are on the right track. Many horse and stock trailers have the axles much farther back than a toy hauler. This would mean the cargo area could be to the rear, but when you loaded the cargo area, the axles would take the weight as opposed to creating a lever effect using the axles as a fulcrum if the load were to be behind the axles. Or have the cargo area up front. I think with having the axles back and the cargo to the rear, you'd have a high pin weight unloaded, whereas with bakken's idea of placing cargo up front, you'd have a much higher pin weight when loaded. Either way, with that amount of load you are talking, I think you are gonna be in 1 ton DRW territory.

Good point about the axles on a horse trailer being farther back. I have seen them built for rodeo dudes with the horse area in the rear, living area up front. But they have horses over the axles as well as behind, so the OP could still not likely put all of the 4000 lbs in the rear, unless it takes up as much space as 4 horses.
But that would be the beauty of a custom-built unit, as they could do whatever they want.

[viper48]

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your 30WR. We have the same hauler as you do and I have never had a single problem towing it. I agree with the other post you should not try to put that much weight to the rear of the axles. I am towing mine with a 02 Chevy Silverado EC 2500HD D/A and it does a good job with it and it has never swayed with me at all. My dry weight is 9100lbs and the only heavy thing I haul in the garage is a golf cart that weighs 550 lbs and a few other various things. From the axles forward my wife has packed everything but the kitchen sink so maybe that is why mine does not sway. I installed a B&W 16,000lb hitch with a 1600lb tongue and I am using the Reece Dual Cam Sway Control. As one of the other post stated maybe you should go to the scales and see what is going on. Good luck and I hope that you get the problem worked out.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by viper48

We have the same hauler as you do

That's a very nice looking TT you've got there...

[viper48]

Thanks for the compliment. It turns a few heads at the camprounds. We are usually the only black one in the campground. I originally ordered a white one and when it came in the floor was screwed up and I refused to take it and they found me this black one which has more bells and whistles and we took it and we have been very happy with it

[screebs1]

We have a Work & Play FS28 which has a 12 foot garage in back. Honestly the only time I have adequate tongue weight is with empty garage and empty fresh water tank ! I am adding a box to hitch behind LP tanks to put anything heavy we plan to have along like jacks & tools. I am researching moving fresh water tank ahead of tandem axles ( factory install is behind axle) I am trying to carry 2 or sometimes 3
trail motorcycles. No Harley's, I'm talking XR250 Honda's & sometimes a DR650.
( the bikes are as far forward in garage as they can be ) Last year I put two salvaged sealed plastic barrels each with 10 gal. water as far forward in as could in trailer to be able to haul 3 trail bikes. If I cannot move fresh water tank then my next course will be to fill black water tank with fresh water at home before each trip, empty it when reach camp site, then would need to drive home with waste tank full..........
( and I'm on city water so $$$ ) Oh, I'm pulling with 2000 Chev C3500 dually 7.4L long box. ext. cab. Sweet truck with only 50K miles.

[bakken]

screebs, you would think they would design these toy haulers so that you could actually haul something safely. What genius decided to place the water tank, or any tank for that matter, behind the axles?
I guess the only way to get "the perfect" camper is to have it custom built!

[Rolling buckeye]

Our 275 ULPS has 150 gal fresh water tank directly over axles, I have a box on toung with 4 deep cycle batts,jack,extra wdb bars,and there are two 30# bottles on toung. I filled fresh tank and built cabs,filled with tools,compressor,impacts,jack stands,gen set and other misc. stuff,put a Polaris 750 sportsman in garage,pulled 100 or so mi.round trip,on I-70,had no issues. Pulling with F 350 srw,with old style wdb,with just chains. I don't know exactly how much the Polaris weighs,but I'm guessing,total with tools n all other,it had1700-2000# maybe a little more, in garage.
IMHO, 4000# is TOO MUCH # in garage. In real world,I would try to balance some of that # may be with a cap or something,move some to truck. If you can go have one built, $$$$,then that is all you !

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I am about 99% sure his problem is not with HOW MUCH weight but rather WHERE that weight is. Take ependydad's advice about getting those weights.

I am in total agreement here. You are loaded AFT CG. Having a tongue weight less than 10% of total camper weight is dangerous (and potentially deadly to you and others). Severe sway is the least of your worries because a panic stop will jackknife your rig when the camper passes your truck.

In the Library (towing) there is a document that tells you how to use the CAT scale to weigh and load your travel trailer.

[Tom Time]

nadjap.
I have a 2011 WPT30WR and I pull it with a 2006 Chevrolet 2500HD. I have the Drawtite 12K weight distribution hitch and cam sway system. When I first used TH the weight distribution hitch was not a lot of help due to the rear suspension. I carry approximately 2200 lbs. in the garage area. There was a lot of bounce because of the weight on the rear suspension.
First I purchased a class V 16k hitch with 1.6k TW (GM had problems with hitches in 2004 to 2007, they break) from etrailer.com, Air Lift 5000 air bags and a remote control, and new front torsion bar keys to level the truck all from Amazon (these were the cheapest places to get both). Best thing I could have done. Took 550 mile trip after installing all and it rode great. Make sure your tires are inflated to the correct air pressure marked on your tires.
Without the air bags my truck was near it's limit with the weight. With the air bags I believe my trucks suspension works great and could hold more weight (Of course it's great to have a brother who is a engineer for GM).
Good luck and happy trailering,

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Tom Time

With the air bags I believe my trucks suspension works great and could hold more weight (Of course it's great to have a brother who is a engineer for GM). Good luck and happy trailering,

Tom,
Check with your brother and he will confirm that air bags and helper springs do not increase your truck's GVWR. In 99% of the cases, GVWR is based on frame strength; not suspension.
Herk

[Tom Time]

Herk,
Actually it depends on three things. First is the frame, second is the suspension and third is the powertrain.
The frame has to be strong enough to hold all the powertrain components and suspension when a load is applied, and strong enough to and pull the weight when power is applied. The suspension has to be strong enough to support the load and (GVCW). The powertrain has to have the power, torque, axle strength along with gear ratio to pull the load along a desired path. With the same truck but gas vs. diesel, the truck with the diesel engine and heavy duty powertrain has a higher GVCWR (per owners manual and GM web site).
I have worked on my friends 2005 Chevrolet 3500 SRW truck and the frame on it looks to both of us as the same. I could not see any difference except for the beefier suspension with the helper springs and heavier rear axle.
As for the engineer he said that the frames on the GM trucks can safely take a heavier load then the manual states. However he does not recommend going over the GVWR/GVCWR due to liability issues.
As for me, I am still within my GVCWR and do not ever plan to go over it!!! Also, the up grades I have done just makes the platform more stable.

[Herk7769]

There is no difference between my 2008 2500HD and the 2010 2500HD except they went from a "C" frame in 2008 and a "boxed" frame in 2010. That change added 1000 pounds to the GVWR of the 2500HD.

I was not talking about the tow rating (power train - note that tow ratings are almost the same across a manufacturer's line) or the payload. (some suspension but mostly frame rating); just the GVWR which is based on the lowest weight rated component that is used in the construction of the truck.
I don't care if it is the driver's seat that is that component (JUST KIDDING!), the truck engineers seem to think that what ever that component is, it is important not to exceed it.

I would like to see a letter from the manufacturer that says exceeding the GVWR is "OK" for some folks who can handle it; but not everybody else.