2012 Shamrock 23SS Elec Issue

[bf2knight]

Hi Group:
I'm new to this forum and new to Forest River products. I have a new to me 2012 Shamrock 23SS hybird TT. I've developed a weird electrical issue. I don't understand RV wiring too well...I'll try to be brief.

First, I've checked all breakers and fuses and all is good.
Second, I have full battery power (fully charged battery).
Third, I have no 110 shore power!

Last weekend all worked fine including Frig, A/C and Micro. Today, not so much.

Micro appears to be dead. I removed and plugged into the house directly, nada. No power.

Frig works only on LP. When I turn it on set on Auto, the check light comes on within a few minutes and won't cool. Ran and cooled fine last weekend on AC shore power. Now I can only get it to run on LP.

As I was checking things out, I tested the GFCI's and found they are working fine. The oddity is that when I plug in a standard 110 box fan, it only runs on SUPER high speed. I assume that's because the plugs are powered by DC right now and not 110 AC. Plug same fan into standard house socket and operates normally...

I have a dedicated 30A plug on the house. That doesn't seem to make a difference. I've also tried a 20A adapter and used a different outlet, still no power to camper.

Thoughts? Replace the converter?

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by bf2knight

Hi Group:
I'm new to this forum and new to Forest River products. I have a new to me 2012 Shamrock 23SS hybird TT. I've developed a weird electrical issue. I don't understand RV wiring too well...I'll try to be brief.

First, I've checked all breakers and fuses and all is good.
Second, I have full battery power (fully charged battery).
Third, I have no 110 shore power!

Last weekend all worked fine including Frig, A/C and Micro. Today, not so much.

Micro appears to be dead. I removed and plugged into the house directly, nada. No power.

Frig works only on LP. When I turn it on set on Auto, the check light comes on within a few minutes and won't cool. Ran and cooled fine last weekend on AC shore power. Now I can only get it to run on LP.

As I was checking things out, I tested the GFCI's and found they are working fine. The oddity is that when I plug in a standard 110 box fan, it only runs on SUPER high speed. I assume that's because the plugs are powered by DC right now and not 110 AC. Plug same fan into standard house socket and operates normally...

I have a dedicated 30A plug on the house. That doesn't seem to make a difference. I've also tried a 20A adapter and used a different outlet, still no power to camper.

Thoughts? Replace the converter?

The fact you removed the microwave and it's not working in the house is what's key to me here.

The dedicated 30 amp breaker/outlet at your house.....are you positive it was wired for 120 volts and not 240 volts. This happens a lot, and even professional electricians mistakingly wire up the outlet for 240 volts. When you connect to 240 volts. all kind of bad things happen. You will lose your converter, microwave, and televisions usually. We keep a sticky in the FAQ forums on how to properly wire a 120 volt 30 amp outlet here:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...let-27223.html

Check out these threads.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...rks-81750.html

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ues-87958.html

If you do indeed have 120 volt power (not 240), then we can troubleshoot further...but need to verify this first.

P.S. You stated you were not that familiar with electricity. Can you go to your house's electrical panel and look at the 30 amp circuit breaker for the 30 amp outlet you are connecting your RV to. It should be a single pole breaker (looks the same width as all the 15/20 amp breakers in the box). If it's a double pole breaker (twice as wide as the 15 amp breakers), then it's 240 volt.

[cpd1343]

Originally Posted by bf2knight

Hi Group:
I'm new to this forum and new to Forest River products. I have a new to me 2012 Shamrock 23SS hybird TT. I've developed a weird electrical issue. I don't understand RV wiring too well...I'll try to be brief.

First, I've checked all breakers and fuses and all is good.
Second, I have full battery power (fully charged battery).
Third, I have no 110 shore power!

Last weekend all worked fine including Frig, A/C and Micro. Today, not so much.

Micro appears to be dead. I removed and plugged into the house directly, nada. No power.

Frig works only on LP. When I turn it on set on Auto, the check light comes on within a few minutes and won't cool. Ran and cooled fine last weekend on AC shore power. Now I can only get it to run on LP.

As I was checking things out, I tested the GFCI's and found they are working fine. The oddity is that when I plug in a standard 110 box fan, it only runs on SUPER high speed. I assume that's because the plugs are powered by DC right now and not 110 AC. Plug same fan into standard house socket and operates normally...

Plugs work only on 110 volt not dc. How did you test the GFCI's if you have no 110 volt?

I have a dedicated 30A plug on the house. That doesn't seem to make a difference. I've also tried a 20A adapter and used a different outlet, still no power to camper.


Thoughts? Replace the converter?

My first thought is a power surge fried the converter/power panel and the micro and the fridge. Is the 30 amp main in the camper OK?

[elundquist]

Bf2knight,

Sounds like you had a power event from that shore power at the camp ground. It looks like it took out your microwave.

It might have taken out your refrigerator and/ A/C! You will need to test each by connecting it directly to your house power like you did with the microwave. This will let you determine if the appliance is working. I would recommend using an extension cord plugged into a GFI outlet in your home.

Plug your camper into a GFI outlet in your home using the 30A to 15A converter. Make sure the AC appliances are turned off in the camper. If the GFI trips the converter has issues. You can also look at the wiring in the converter to see if you have melted wires.

Remember the converter only converts AC to DC.

If you can, test the voltage at the house outlet where you plugin the camper. The test the voltage at an outlet in the camper to see if they match.




Erik Lundquist

[bf2knight]

BINGO! Give this forum a cookie!

The electrician, in fact, wired a double pole 240 not a single pole 120! Now I have to figure out the damages....I assume it's going to be major.

Thanks for the info

[clr]

Plugging into a GFI outlet in the house to trouble shoot AC problems is not a great idea. I will try and keep this simple, but a RV has a floating ground and your home has an earth ground system. GFI's measure the current flowing on the power lead and look for the same power returning on the power return lead. Even small current differences will trip the GFI. There are several loads in the RV that can cause the GFI to trip with no problems in the RV. The number one is the RF filters that are installed in the switching power supplies, almost all converters and inverters are switching type power supplies. That long and short of this is that a totally fine RV can still pop a GFI outlet. Do not want you chasing your tail here, good luck.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by bf2knight

BINGO! Give this forum a cookie!

The electrician, in fact, wired a double pole 240 not a single pole 120! Now I have to figure out the damages....I assume it's going to be major.

Thanks for the info

The converter is almost a certain for replacement. If you will read the links I posted in my first post, it may help a lot. It has stuff on the microwave and better explanations on what to look for and how your electrical systems work in your RV.

I know it can be frustrating, but you will get past this. You have a forum of friends here to help. It may not be as bad as it seems at the onset. We're pulling for you.

If you hired an electrician (not friend, family, or buddy deal) then you may have some recourse there on them paying for damages to your RV.

[bf2knight]

Originally Posted by clr

Plugging into a GFI outlet in the house to trouble shoot AC problems is not a great idea. I will try and keep this simple, but a RV has a floating ground and your home has an earth ground system. GFI's measure the current flowing on the power lead and look for the same power returning on the power return lead. Even small current differences will trip the GFI. There are several loads in the RV that can cause the GFI to trip with no problems in the RV. The number one is the RF filters that are installed in the switching power supplies, almost all converters and inverters are switching type power supplies. That long and short of this is that a totally fine RV can still pop a GFI outlet. Do not want you chasing your tail here, good luck.

This isn't quite right. I plugged a standard 110 box fan into the camper outlets and got the single high speed result. When I plugged same fan into house outlet it was fine. AC in this case is 110, not air conditioning!

[clr]

You got the fan result because you have 220V inside your camper instead of 110V. The speeds on the fan are through a device that lowers the voltage to the fan motor thus causing the fan to run slower. When you plug into 220V that fan can only run at high speed because the voltage is still above 110V even at low speed fan setting.

[bf2knight]

Originally Posted by clr

You got the fan result because you have 220V inside your camper instead of 110V. The speeds on the fan are through a device that lowers the voltage to the fan motor thus causing the fan to run slower. When you plug into 220V that fan can only run at high speed because the voltage is still above 110V even at low speed fan setting.

That makes total sense!

[cpd1343]

Originally Posted by bf2knight

Hi Group:
I'm new to this forum and new to Forest River products. I have a new to me 2012 Shamrock 23SS hybird TT. I've developed a weird electrical issue. I don't understand RV wiring too well...I'll try to be brief.

First, I've checked all breakers and fuses and all is good.
Second, I have full battery power (fully charged battery).
Third, I have no 110 shore power!

Last weekend all worked fine including Frig, A/C and Micro. Today, not so much.

Micro appears to be dead. I removed and plugged into the house directly, nada. No power.

Frig works only on LP. When I turn it on set on Auto, the check light comes on within a few minutes and won't cool. Ran and cooled fine last weekend on AC shore power. Now I can only get it to run on LP.

As I was checking things out, I tested the GFCI's and found they are working fine. The oddity is that when I plug in a standard 110 box fan, it only runs on SUPER high speed. I assume that's because the plugs are powered by DC right now and not 110 AC. Plug same fan into standard house socket and operates normally...

I have a dedicated 30A plug on the house. That doesn't seem to make a difference. I've also tried a 20A adapter and used a different outlet, still no power to camper.

Thoughts? Replace the converter?

This is a perfect case where this http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-In...tection+device would have prevented all the damage to your camper.

[elundquist]

Wow 30A wired as 240VAC! That would do it and explains the fans operation. I assumed the 30A outlet was used before without problems.

This is a good engineering trouble shooting example.

Once you get that 30Afixed you will need to trouble shoot each 120V appliance for damage.

Plugging your camper into a GFI should NEVER trip your GFI, unless you draw too much current. Never try to run A/C or a lot of appliances when plugging your 30A camper into a 20A or 15A circuit!

I plug my camper into my garage 20A outlet (GFI protected per code) all the time without tripping the GFI.

The AC (120V) system in your camper is wired just like your house per code. There should not be "floating grounds" on the AC side! Once you connect the shore plug to your house (power source) the camper is just another room(s)/ circuits(s) in the system.

If anyone is tripping a GFI circuit their camper is plugged into, when the load is within the rated amperage of the GFI circuit, should have their camper inspected for electrical faults! Something is wrong!





Erik Lundquist

[Kansas Camper]

Would the $84 Smart Surge (SSP30) help if the wife will not allow the $300 purchase?

[cpd1343]

Originally Posted by Kansas Camper

Would the $84 Smart Surge (SSP30) help if the wife will not allow the $300 purchase?

Sure...anything is better than nothing. You never know what condition the power system is in at a campground.

[elundquist]

In this case both the line and neutral had 120VAC only, so a plain Jane Surge Protector might not catch this problem. The Smart Surge (SSP30) would have for it checks polarity and it would have seen 120VAC on the neutral.

It's good to look at the spec of protection devices to see how they will protect as some offer cost savings by limiting protection.






Erik Lundquist

[Kansas Camper]

For the lowest cost would this be the best option?

[elundquist]

Yea I would get one, if limited $, as they are good protection for most issues.

Not sure why they are not built into the cords of modern RV's. I plan on installing the hardwired model for it has a few more features.


iPhone correction is driving nuts! I had to edit this post twice.

Erik Lundquist

[Kansas Camper]

Thanks Eric. If I spend much more than this it might cut into our camping budget.

[elundquist]

I here you on that. I know the risks and understand the costs on the down side of not having protection, but I still don't even have the $90 unit for my camper!

As a Professional Engineer I know better and recommend protection as the first thing to buy before a sewer hose, but I don't have one yet.







Erik Lundquist

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by bf2knight

BINGO! Give this forum a cookie!

The electrician, in fact, wired a double pole 240 not a single pole 120! Now I have to figure out the damages....I assume it's going to be major.

Thanks for the info

you'd be surprised how often this happens. we see lots of posts of this occurring when the electrician doesn't know how RV systems are set up and assumes it's like a house.

if anyone is thinking about getting a 30amp setup at home, they need to educate themselves so they can make sure the electrician knows what they're doing.

too often, they don't research it first and end up on a forum like this, after the fact, asking why nothing works and why stuff got fried.