2013 21SS tongue weight - What the fudge...

[DieselDrax]

Ok, I'm having a hard time figuring this out...or at least accepting it.

I would've liked to get 3 different weighs as is best in order to know all the weights involved, but currently I only have the one weight - Hitched up and loaded, WDH adjusted according to mfr. I knew I was going to be close to my truck's limits, but this was unexpected.

Here are the numbers...

Steer - 3,080 (3,400 FAWR)
Drive - 3,740 (3,500 RAWR)
Truck GVWR - 6,200

620LB over GVWR, 240LB over RAWR.

Trailer axles - 4,640

I also know the empty truck weight with me in it is roughly 5,130LB. That left 1,070LB for everything else. Assuming the trailer is loaded up to around 5,200LB, that would be around 625LB on the hitch without bars (I have 1000/10000 bars with my E2) or about 412LB with the bars on, leaving 658LB for wife, 2 kids, dog, and the shell (About 500LB in all).

Before we bought the 21SS I did the math based on ~12% of the trailer GVWR being on the hitch and knew we'd be close but should be just under. So now I'm at a loss, how did I end up 620+ pounds over the MOST of what I thought I'd ever see? Is the 21SS really putting 18% on the hitch and is the rated cargo capacity much less than posted with the shipping weight being extremely far off?! There is NO way we have that much stuff in the trailer in front of the axles. There's just no room.

I've had a long day (and a long 3 weeks, we just towed this combo 5,700 miles over the past 3 weeks) and maybe I'm not thinking straight. I never would have thought I'd need an F-150 with the HDPP or a 3/4 ton truck (1,900+ LB payload capacity with a crew cab) to tow this 21SS, my wife, 2 kids, and a 45LB dog.

My truck doesn't even look overweight just sitting there all hitched up and I weighed twice during the trip thinking I got a bad weigh the first time early on in the trip.

What am I missing? Even making adjustments to the WDH isn't going to fix this. I'm at a loss as to where all that extra weight came from.

[DieselDrax]

I think I may have an idea of what’s going on, while the front height was returned to the correct level I didn’t measure where the dealer had installed the L brackets. I think they may be too far forward and that would definitely cause me problems with weight on the rear and not getting proper weight distribution.

I hope that’s the case because I just couldn’t see how the weight could be so far off from what was expected.

[kandl]

How does it tow after that 5700 mile evaluation? You're perhaps overthinking this? At or slightly over the TV's GVWR will not relegate you to the fiery pit. It's how you pull the rig and how it handles that you need to pay attention to.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by kandl

How does it tow after that 5700 mile evaluation? You're perhaps overthinking this? At or slightly over the TV's GVWR will not relegate you to the fiery pit. It's how you pull the rig and how it handles that you need to pay attention to.

If I didn’t weigh it then I never would have guessed. It towed fine, though looking at the frame I can tell the rear bump stops have made contact since those spots are clean.

My theory about the bracket position didn’t pan out. The instructions said 24-27 inches from coupler center. They are right at 25”.

[rockfordroo]

Diesels are heavier than gas. I'm sure you've lost a lot of payload to the diesel.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Diesels are heavier than gas. I'm sure you've lost a lot of payload to the diesel.

Nope, not an issue with the Colorado/Canyon. GVWR on the diesel is increased by 200LB over the gas. The 2.8L diesel isn’t a big weight increase over the V6 like the diesel weight increase over the gas in the full-size trucks.

The gas V6 weighs around 370LB and the diesel weighs 520LB. So I actually have 50LB more payload than a comparable gas truck.

[lbrjet]

Get everyone in the truck, throw the hitch and bars in back, fill it with fuel and weigh it. Go from there. That will take the guess work out of it.

[SeaDog]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Ok, I'm having a hard time figuring this out...or at least accepting it.



I've had a long day (and a long 3 weeks, we just towed this combo 5,700 miles over the past 3 weeks) and maybe I'm not thinking straight. I never would have thought I'd need an F-150 with the HDPP or a 3/4 ton truck (1,900+ LB payload capacity with a crew cab) to tow this 21SS, my wife, 2 kids, and a 45LB dog.

What am I missing? Even making adjustments to the WDH isn't going to fix this. I'm at a loss as to where all that extra weight came from.

Take some stuff out of the truck and put in the trailer behind the axles also move some stuff aft in the trailer doesn't take allot to change the weight at the tongue it not one for one ratio. Maybe you actually want a larger truck and your mind is playing tricks on you. Your last statement rings true when I get on the bathroom scale. LOL

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by SeaDog

Take some stuff out of the truck and put in the trailer behind the axles also move some stuff aft in the trailer doesn't take allot to change the weight at the tongue it not one for one ratio. Maybe you actually want a larger truck and your mind is playing tricks on you. Your last statement rings true when I get on the bathroom scale. LOL

There’s not really much space to store much behind the axles. Basically the bathroom that we do store things in and a narrow wardrobe closet which we put most of our clothes in. All the other available storage areas and open floor with the slide in are either over or in front of the axles.

Don’t want a new truck, either. Just have no idea why the weights are so far from what I was expecting.

I didn’t have such a discrepancy with the 31-foot TT we had with a half ton truck but that had more room and was easier to get it loaded properly.

[Hersbird]

What is your battery setup? I bet you could lose almost 150 pounds replacing the lead acid for a li-po4 that is lighter and could be installed inside in the back that would be about $1000 but pay for itself in the end. Also the water tank is probably almost 300 pounds full and in the first foot of the box. Keeping that dry would be another more like 400 pounds off the hitch. Obviously anything heavy in that front compartment should go. We have cast iron pots and even a BBQ in there but I'm happy with 1000 pounds on the hitch, I believe the more hitch weight the better as long as you are within limits. In the end I think your setup is fine. I would look at some timbrens for the rear and even try and get 100 pounds more transferred with the hitch. Maybe go 1/2 tank of water and I plan on doing the battery mod just for the improvement in boondocking.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

What is your battery setup? I bet you could lose almost 150 pounds replacing the lead acid for a li-po4 that is lighter and could be installed inside in the back that would be about $1000 but pay for itself in the end. Also the water tank is probably almost 300 pounds full and in the first foot of the box. Keeping that dry would be another more like 400 pounds off the hitch. Obviously anything heavy in that front compartment should go. We have cast iron pots and even a BBQ in there but I'm happy with 1000 pounds on the hitch, I believe the more hitch weight the better as long as you are within limits. In the end I think your setup is fine. I would look at some timbrens for the rear and even try and get 100 pounds more transferred with the hitch. Maybe go 1/2 tank of water and I plan on doing the battery mod just for the improvement in boondocking.

Single 12v battery and all water tanks are empty. There’s no front compartment, really. There’s one inside that has bath towels and sheets. The grill is a small one and is in the compartment over the rear axle. Same with the power cord, EMS, leveling blocks, X-chocks. In the very rear compartment are more leveling blocks and awning lights. In the long storage in the slide is the patio mat and a couple of lightweight outdoor games.

Just not much room to hide a lot of heavy things.

[babock]

This is an example why you need to pay attention to payload capacity when you buy a truck for a trailer. A good reason why Dodge, Toyota and Nissan 1/2Ts were out of the question when I bought my truck.

As it is, I bought battle born batteries and moved them away from my tongue to give me margin. Tongue weight is high on my trailer since I have 2 slides. I also am super careful of what goes into the trailer.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by babock

This is an example why you need to pay attention to payload capacity when you buy a truck for a trailer. A good reason why Dodge, Toyota and Nissan 1/2Ts were out of the question when I bought my truck.

As it is, I bought battle born batteries and moved them away from my tongue to give me margin. Tongue weight is high on my trailer since I have 2 slides. I also am super careful of what goes into the trailer.

Truck came first, trailer second. I knew I was going to be close and did the math based on the trailer's GVWR, so to end up 620LB over my truck's GVWR is mind boggling as I have no idea how that could be possible. Based on the numbers, I somehow ended up with 1,900LB of payload (people, gear, tongue weight).

220 - me
150 - wife
120 - kid1
120 - kid2
45 - dog
175 - shell
150 - misc in bed of truck
= 980LB

That means hitch gear and tongue weight add up to 920LB WITH the WDH bars on. That is nearly 18% tongue weight with the bars on and adjusted.

Explain that one to me because I don't get it. I expected around 1,400LB payload at the absolute max, not 1,900. That's more than most crew cab 1/2-ton trucks have, the F-150 with the HDPP being the exception.

And that's why I'm stumped.

[DieselDrax]

Hitched up and ready to go during our trip. Does this truck look like it's 620LB over GVWR and 240LB over RAWR? Doesn't look overweight to me and I would've never thought weight were an issue had I not gone across 2 different scales and had similar weights both times.

[elchilero53]

Looks are deceiving. It appears you are not shifting enough weight to the front axle with your hitch - or you are just overloaded on the rear. The Canyon/Colorado is a light-duty pickup for doing light haul jobs and is not designed to tow that load. A popup maybe. That is just the way it is. I am surprised they are putting a small turbo diesel into these things! You might could lose the shell and the 150 lbs in the back and regain some capacity.

An alternative is to have your wife follow you with the passengers in the family car with some of the payload. Then you can keep the shell and still have enough payload for the trailer and the hitch. That will work until you can afford a new tow vehicle. I talked with a senior sales guy at my dealer and he said they don't bother listing tow ratings anymore. Payload is the major number you must look at and even that is very misleading. Numbers are calculated using a formula from a time when men actually averaged 150 to 160 lbs. Men don't weigh that on average anymore so reweighing the vehicle with driver, ALL the passengers, hitch and "stuff" is an absolute must. Subtracting the number from the scale from the GVWR will give you your REAL payload number. Prepare for a rude shock, as you just discovered. Surprise, you don't have anywhere NEAR what you expected.

Keep working the problem and you will come to a reasonable and workable solution.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by elchilero53

Looks are deceiving. It appears you are not shifting enough weight to the front axle with your hitch - or you are just overloaded on the rear.

I am returning all the height to the front just as GM says to do in the manual.

The Canyon/Colorado is a light-duty pickup for doing light haul jobs and is not designed to tow that load. A popup maybe. That is just the way it is.

You seem to be misinformed on the current Colorado/Canyon trucks. They have up to 1,500LB of payload and 7,700LB max tow with the crew cab. That matches various half ton trucks and beats some, like the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel depending on trim.

I am surprised they are putting a small turbo diesel into these things! You might could lose the shell and the 150 lbs in the back and regain some capacity.

An alternative is to have your wife follow you with the passengers in the family car with some of the payload. Then you can keep the shell and still have enough payload for the trailer and the hitch. That will work until you can afford a new tow vehicle. I talked with a senior sales guy at my dealer and he said they don't bother listing tow ratings anymore. Payload is the major number you must look at and even that is very misleading. Numbers are calculated using a formula from a time when men actually averaged 150 to 160 lbs. Men don't weigh that on average anymore so reweighing the vehicle with driver, ALL the passengers, hitch and "stuff" is an absolute must. Subtracting the number from the scale from the GVWR will give you your REAL payload number. Prepare for a rude shock, as you just discovered. Surprise, you don't have anywhere NEAR what you expected.

Keep working the problem and you will come to a reasonable and workable solution.

Appreciate the input, I’m not new to this. The question is about where the weight from the 21SS is coming from and if the manufacturer weights on the stickers are off or if the 21SS really is this tongue heavy, the question is not what my truck is capable of.

Kind of silly to have my wife follow me for 5,700 miles like we just completed as per my first post.

[rockfordroo]

I suggest you go back to the scales and do a complete weighing. Otherwise, everyone's guessing.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I suggest you go back to the scales and do a complete weighing. Otherwise, everyone's guessing.

Yes, that is on my to-do list. I’m going to try and to that tomorrow if I have time.

I was hoping to have other 21SS owners chime in with their weight experiences, if any.

[bikendan]

What does the cap weigh?
That's going to take a good chunk of payload.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by bikendan

What does the cap weigh?
That's going to take a good chunk of payload.

It’s about 175LB and is included in my numbers above.