Brakes

[Mr Havercamp]

I'm with Turbs, your dealer is an idiot and a moron.
When you change a set of these out you have to manually adjust them to get them in the ballpark. If you don't it could take 100 brake applications before they adjusted themselves to where they need to be.

[KMP44]

Originally Posted by TURBS

Your dealer is an idiot.

That's being kind to them. Dealt with them for my first camper - went elsewhere after a complete fiasco with the service department.

I can lock up the tires on my '13. Thought maybe we missed out on a nice upgrade with the self-adjusting breaks, but this might be in the same category as the easy-lube axles. Sounds great in the brochure, but not really so great in the real world.

[rockfordroo]

Bottom line:

If you've gott'em and they work, GREAT. If you've gott'em and they don't work, you're no worse off than if you didn't have them at all.

[Mr Havercamp]

First off I dont know why you want them to lock up. Dexter says dont do it. Any controller I am familiar with says adjust the gain until right before lockup. When they lock up they are not stopping anything and your flat spotting tires. Typically the smaller the diameter of tire and heavier the trailer, the harder it is to get them to lock up. You only have so much magnet area and can only put so much current to them.

Lots of variables between models of trailers as to what will lock up and what wont. As I said before heat has a lot to do with it. Cold brakes are not doing much.

I must be one of the few? I like auto adjusting brakes and ez lube axles and have never had an issue with either. I'm looking forward to buying a trailer that already has the never adjusts so that I dont have to spend $140 at EM.

[ebcobra93]

For me, it isn't that I necessarily want them to lock up. But it would be nice if, during the controller calibration, I could get them to lock up and then back off (as suggested in the set up guide) so that I know I'm getting maximum stopping power. As it is, the controller is maxed out and I'm getting good braking...but I don't know if it could be better.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

First off I dont know why you want them to lock up. Dexter says dont do it. Any controller I am familiar with says adjust the gain until right before lockup. When they lock up they are not stopping anything and your flat spotting tires. Typically the smaller the diameter of tire and heavier the trailer, the harder it is to get them to lock up. You only have so much magnet area and can only put so much current to them.

Lots of variables between models of trailers as to what will lock up and what wont. As I said before heat has a lot to do with it. Cold brakes are not doing much.

I must be one of the few? I like auto adjusting brakes and ez lube axles and have never had an issue with either. I'm looking forward to buying a trailer that already has the never adjusts so that I dont have to spend $140 at EM.

I don't think anyone WANTS them to lock up. But OP's original question was, "If you guys put your brake controllers up to max voltage does the trailer brakes lock up?"

If you've got your controller sending full voltage to your brakes and they're NOT locking up, that would seem to imply that you don't really know where you stand on your brake adjustment. They could be so out of adjustment that they aren't doing ANY braking. So you DO want them to lock up, just so you can then back off the power just a bit.

[Mr Havercamp]

Understood, I should of worded that different. I stand by my post that you are not going to get every trailer to lock the brakes up, too many variables. Some just won't do it due to weight, balance, temperature, road surface condition, a whole crapload of reasons. And usually when one won't its not an indication of anything wrong with the brakes.

I haven't used the method that's in all of those controller manuals to set gain for 25 years or better. I'd say after you do it enough you can feel where it needs to be. You shouldn't be trusting locking up or not to be an indication of adjustment, the only way to confirm adjustment is get out the jack and spoon.

[urocav2001]

Yes I was trying to prove a point to the dealer that at maximum voltage they would barely slow down, I do not want them to lock up, but my other shamrock that had the other brakes would start to lock up about 10v. I'll have to adjust them out next year myself, brakes fade quickly going down steep hills, and these hills are the same ones I've traveled with my older unit. So I know something is not right.


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[Mr Havercamp]

We can speculate all we want but my experience with Dexter Never adjust brakes tells me they are not your problem, unless you just received some bad ones as in defective or weak magnets etc. Have you put enough miles on them to make sure they are "broken in"? Have you checked all the wiring for proper gauge and to see if all 4 wheels are connected. Does your dealer know what brakes are?

Call Dexter and talk to tech support, they are usually pretty good with advice and information. (574) 295-7888

Its not the Never adjusts as an overall product in general IMO, go read the reviews at E trailer. The low rated reviews are ones are for idiotic things like missing plugs for the adjustment holes or hardware.

I have to ask, have you pulled the drum? Are they 10"X 2-1/4" brakes or did Rockwood cheap out like Keystone did on my 235, and use 3K axles with 10"X1-1/2"? It wouldn't surprise me at all to find 3.5K axles and 10"X1-1/2" brakes from a manufacturer although I think once you go above 3K on an axle the 2 1/4 are required by DOT.

The shoes and magnets along with most of the other parts are essentially the same between Dexters never adjust and standard assemblies.

How far are you from Western PA? Bring it over and we'll pull it in the garage and tear it apart.

[TURBS]

With the exception of the magnet these brakes are no different then rear drum brakes on a vehicle.
Only difference is the magnet actuates the shoes not a wheel cylinder.
Btw how many times did you ever adjust the rear brakes on your car or truck with rear drums?

[Cowracer]

am I wrong in thinking that I don't want my trailer brakes to lock up at any time? I always thought that trailer brakes were solely there to slow down the trailer enough to keep it from jackknifing, and not to contribute a large percentage to overall braking action.

I know that if your trailer brakes lock-up, you most likely will get a great view of the side of your unit as it passes you during the wreck.

Tim

[Mr Havercamp]

http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/614960...ric_Brakes.pdf

http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/614960...ric_Brakes.pdf

[KMP44]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

am I wrong in thinking that I don't want my trailer brakes to lock up at any time?

No, but any trailer I've ever had if you turned the break controller all the way up the wheels would lock up. Then you turn it down to a point where you get smooth breaking without any way to lock up the wheels.

OPs complaint is inadequate breaking. He owned the same model trailer (a couple years older) with the same tv and isn't getting adequate break power with the new Roo. The point of turning it up to try to lock up the wheels was to illustrate the lack of braking power, not that he wanted to actually lock up the wheels driving down the road.

When picked up ours, the service guy actually took it around the parking lot before we left to check the brake adjustment. His test was to be rolling along at about 10mph and without hitting the truck breaks, manually actuate the break controller. If the trailer breaks smoothly stopped the whole rig, then the break adjustment was good.

[urocav2001]

Originally Posted by KMP44

No, but any trailer I've ever had if you turned the break controller all the way up the wheels would lock up. Then you turn it down to a point where you get smooth breaking without any way to lock up the wheels.

OPs complaint is inadequate breaking. He owned the same model trailer (a couple years older) with the same tv and isn't getting adequate break power with the new Roo. The point of turning it up to try to lock up the wheels was to illustrate the lack of braking power, not that he wanted to actually lock up the wheels driving down the road.

When picked up ours, the service guy actually took it around the parking lot before we left to check the brake adjustment. His test was to be rolling along at about 10mph and without hitting the truck breaks, manually actuate the break controller. If the trailer breaks smoothly stopped the whole rig, then the break adjustment was good.

Exactly what point I was trying to prove, they tested tow vehicle brake controller and other thing and everything's checked out ok, these brakes seem to be an issue


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[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by urocav2001

Exactly what point I was trying to prove, they tested tow vehicle brake controller and other thing and everything's checked out ok, these brakes seem to be an issue

I still find it hard to believe its the Never adjust brakes themselves if your having weak braking. I have them on a box utility trailer, a flatbed equipment trailer. I also had them on the Hybrid we had before the one we have now, and would of put them on the current one when the shoes needed replaced. I have never had an issue.

If they're in adjustment there's not a hell of lot of other things mechanically that could cause weak braking. As far as "locking up" is concerned, whether they do or not is not an indicator of anything. This is from Dexter; page 1 in the link I posted.

Note: Not all trailer brakes are capable of wheel lockup. Loading conditions, brake type, wheel and tire size can all affect whether a brake can lock.

If I was you I would be looking in the troubleshooting section in the link. I'd do or have done the tests mentioned starting on page 20.

This is on page 17

"Most electric brake malfunctions that cannot be corrected either by brake adjustments or synchronization adjustments can generally be traced to electrical system failure. Voltmeters and ammeters are essential tools for proper troubleshooting of electric brakes.

Mechanical causes are ordinarily obvious, i.e. bent or broken parts, worn out linings or magnets, seized lever arms or shoes, scored drums, loose parts etc. Replace defective parts with genuine Dexter replacements."

On page 21
The most common electrical problem is low or no voltage and amperage at the brakes. Common causes of this condition are:
1 Poor electrical connections.
2 Open Circuits
3 Insufficient wire size
4 Broken wires
5 Blown fuses (fusing of brakes is not recommended)
6 Improperly functioning controllers or resistors

I would bet my money on # 1 or #3. The use of scotch locks and cheap non waterproof crimp connectors is common on these trailers and
undersized wiring also has been known to be used.

Did the dealer troubleshoot anything electrically?

[urocav2001]

Yes they plugged in this box with a bunch much of analog gauges on it, then applied brakes by using manual override on controller, all number matched at different levels..
If controller was set at 13 the box said 13 of controller was set at 4 the box read 4

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[Mr Havercamp]

They plugged it in where? At the 7 way connector on the TV?

If that's the case that told them something they probably should of known, the wiring on the tow vehicle and the controller is ok. Sounds like your dealers service tech is Mr Obvious. You would do the Dexter tests at the brake magnet connections using a multi-meter. They need to test the connections and wiring on the trailer itself. Between the trailers 7 way connector and each wheel.

If that checks out then they need to check each magnet. Maybe there was a bad batch of those and they slipped through the cracks. If the magnets are within specs then they need to check the drums to see if the armature surface and drum surface is within specs. Its all pretty easy stuff to check out.

[urocav2001]

Yes plugged in to the 7 way. I'll have them check all the other stuff in spring, thanks you seems to know your stuff lol


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[Canonman]

Just a quick "buttinski"; did they pull the wheel and check to see if bearing grease might have gotten on the brakes? I've seen this be a problem in the past when the buddy bearings get a little too much grease and it oozes out of the back seal.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by urocav2001

you seems to know your stuff lol

Not really, just enough to get me in trouble.