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Old 07-13-2015, 08:11 PM   #31
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Maybe a LR thing. I do know Ram has an optional air suspension also.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:22 PM   #32
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oh and just MY 2 cents for drhroo.....I kind of read between your lines and got a tad sad...please don't give up totally on the direction you were headed with any potential trailer choice. I am NO expert on ANY of this stuff but have read plenty to make me second guess almost everything I do. There are TONS of great ideas and a wealth of respectable good advise available on this forum, something I think you noted right at the start. Take what the weight police shared to heart, you and your families safety should always fail to a conservative position, better to arrive alive than not, then EVERYONE wins! Keep a smile, even if you end up tent camping another year or two (we did 14 years) before changing to a new TV so you can get the trailer you want, you are STILL CAMPING..YA HOO!!!!!
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:24 PM   #33
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My wife and I were shopping for a Model 19 which my 2011 Toyota Tacoma could tow. A salesman felt my Tacoma could handle the 23IKSS just fine and showed it to my wife. My wife is great and completely understood that the Tacoma couldn't handle the larger HTT. The stars aligned and two things happened that have never happened and at the same time: One, I considered something different and two, my wife never asked me "why do you need a new truck". We both love our Shamrock 23IKSS. Plenty of room and lots of storage. We sit outside a lot and haven't noticed any issues from the slide-out on the awning side. Good luck with your search.


HTT and Tundra are both 2014 models.

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Old 07-13-2015, 08:49 PM   #34
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I appreciate everyone's concern. No worries. I believe there is more to the LR4 than meets the eye, though. It has some excellent electronic sway control technology. As for the wheel base it may not be great but at 113.6" on a 190" body it is better than a Toyota Land Cruiser at 112.2" on a 194" body. And the Land Cruiser which has a towing rating of 8,200 lbs. (Yes, it has a solid rear axle but it also sits up higher in normal operation.) The Land Rover has a better departure angle (which can bring the trailer closer to the rear axle depending on how the hitch is mounted.) The Land Cruiser is certainly not a long wheel base either but it has been used effectively for a lot of towing chores. Some would argue the LR4 air suspension is a disadvantage. Others suggest the automatic leveling is an advantage. Yet there was a lot of opinion out there. I needed to find someone who had experience. Lots of guys pulling heavy boats near the max of 7700 lbs and having no issues. But the hitch weight with boats is much less. I needed to find someone who had pulled a travel trailer that was at or heavier than what I want to do.

And, yes, there is actually hope! ;-) But more on that in a moment.

ebemis, as I have been researching this it appears the reason for the 550 lbs hitch weight limit is actually somewhat murky. There was one posting of some who claimed to use a WDH to pull an Airstream and something about the hitch breaking and Land Rover wouldn't cover it under warranty. Is it possible this person was also using the "stock", plug in, hitch receiver with a WDH. Anyway, something about the shifting back and forth causing that receiver to break off. Many suspect that LR is more concerned about how well the "plug and play" receiver mechanism will work.

But I have been in contact today with two people who pull larger loads.

One actually has been pulling a Shamrock 23IKSS for a year. Same specs as the Roo. They have had no issues. Air suspension works great. BUT, they installed a different hitch receiver directly to the frame with a much higher hitch rate. (And, yes, they keep the GVW and Gross Axel Weights (front and rear) in mind. (See the numbers above.)

The other was more impressive but he did more significant work. He has been pulling an Airstream Eddie Bauer 27' rated at 735 lbs on the hitch before (though loaded he has it at 885 lbs), a total dry weight of 5,900 with a carrying capacity of 1800 lbs. When they actually did a weigh in the total trailer weight was 7,150 and the hitch weight was over 1,000 lbs. But to make that work he had a Hensley Arrow load balancing hitch installed and a Hensley Tru Gold brake controller. (He had to change out his oversized spare to make the hitch fit.) So, again, it appears to be possible to make load balancing hitches work. But the key here is that this guy used someone who had a lot of expertise in making different combinations work and had done this a number of times before. (He said he does get the trailer axles serviced every hear. He also runs a TPMS system on each trailer tire to keep an eye on them.) And, no, I cannot afford the Airstream and I probably don't want to go full out on the Hensley stuff. But I will definitely be looking at a hitch and likely one that will better handle heavier loads. I will not use the factory plug and play hitch. (I bought it on eBay anyway so no big loss.) I just need to see how the permanent hitch effects my departure angles and ground clearance in the center but the latter should be no worse than what I have with my spare underneath (9.6" normal, 11.6" off road.)

BTW, if you want to see something interesting, check out this website. Not saying at all that I am going to go there but it is interesting what is possible. I was pointed to this site by a couple of different people.
Can-Am RV Centre | Your Towing Experts
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:07 PM   #35
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COOL!

When you are bored and googling LandRover pulls...you find the coolest stuff!

Not in your weight concern area..but a neat video none the less!
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:09 PM   #36
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Interesting thread...just wondering if anyone has any comments about the "...Land Rover doesn't like you to use equalizers due to the air suspension." line......I know my tow vehicle uses air adjust suspension, I think if I recall Chevy calls it Auto-Ride Suspension. I haven't read anything at all in my owners manual or any forum/tow boards warning about WDH setup not going along with air suspension...is this a LandRover thing or am I missing something?
I think this is a LR thing.
Honda also has an anti-WDH policy but it's not based on air suspension.

numerous GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles have auto air suspension but none of them, that I know of, have any restrictions using a WDH.
Generally though, you are supposed to turn it off when setting up the WDH.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:01 PM   #37
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Of the two people I communicated with who are doing this with LR4s - both with some form of equalizer hitch - neither seemed to think the air compression was an issue though one said you had to get used to it and you could use it to your advantage (it does do load leveling.) You cannot turn off the air suspension on an Land Rover.

I am thinking that the underlying reason for the 550 lbs hitch weight limit is the stock hitch receiver mechanism even though it is 3rd generation. I also suspect that they keep it low to avoid litigation if something should happen.

I also know of at least one guy who is pulling a boat and putting 825 lbs on the hitch and having no problems at all. But I don't remember if he was using an equalizer or even an after market hitch.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:48 PM   #38
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...I sense the power of the roo dark side growing with this one.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:47 AM   #39
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Turn to the dark side, we have canvas and an island...
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:47 PM   #40
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OK, you "Ickies", I will admit that you have an island but we may need to forgo the island and settle for only canvas. (I was a sailor growing up so I'm good with the canvas. My wife would like the island but it may not work.)

I am looking at two angles now:
1 - replace the funky OEM trailer hitch gizmo (it plugs into the frame and is held by a decent size pin but only but that pin which can apparently wear with a lot of side to side motion. Therefore the low hitch weight rating and the issue with WDHs. The problem here is that I need to find a good bolt-on hitch that, hopefully, won't make me replace my under-the-car spare.
2 - determine if I can make a 23SS work with a dry hitch rate of 458 lbs (100 lbs less than the 23IKSS). No island and likely borderline on the hitch weight. But I'll check. There other problem is that there are not many 23SSs around. (I am hearing that they are going through a redesign with the new specs to come out the end of this month.

Also, if you are interested in the Land Rover hitch issues here is some feedback I received from the guy in Canada who pulls a 27' Airstream. It makes the most sense of anything I have heard and reinforces what I have heard elsewhere about the OEM hitch being the weak link.

--------------

The 550/700 thing is a weird Land Rover thing... The receiver can only handle 550. It's a limit of that stupid 500$ cast piece that fits into the bumper. The 700lb is what the draw bar can handle. So u have to listen to the lower number.

Air suspension has nothing to do with it. The Mercedes GL, and Porsche Cayenne all have the same rating. It has something to do with EU regulations on weights of towed trailers without a commercial licence. In Europe it's limited to 3500kg (or exactly 7716lbs)
If you do your research, you'll see all the biggest European SUVs have the exact same max tow load rating.. Meaning that they meet the max allowable in Europe. In NA, we can tow much heavier loads without a commercial licence, so our pickup trucks and SUVs are tested to their limit.

When I was at Can-Am, I tested a lot of trailers that they had set up there to demo their stability. I towed a trailer that weighed 11200 lbs with 1300 on the tongue no problem.
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