Considering a 23IKS - Got Questions

[drhroo]

First, I want to say how awesome this forum is. Especially anything written by RooVader! It is forums like this that have helped me to decide on other purchases - not the whiney forums, but the forums where real people share real experiences, great ideas and get help on real problems. Very cool.

Should we decide to purchase a hybrid (most likely a Roo) it would be our first trailer of any type since our Coleman pop-up of 25 years ago. Just my wife and I now though I expect if we get one there will be grandkids in it at some point. And friends and whomever.

We were considering maybe getting a trailer in the next year or so. Then it became a hybrid once we were convinced we wouldn't drown in it and if large furry things were rummaging around outside we could just fold everything up and sleep on the dinette.

Next step was to settle on a brand to focus on. After some online research and a visit to Nolan's RV near Denver today we are definitely leaning towards a Rockwood. It certainly seems like they do a lot of things well in their design and manufacturing (though I realize nothing is perfect). Do you all agree?

Next, I thought we would settle on a 21SS. (BTW, I will be pulling it with a Land Rover LR4 with a 7700lbs towing capacity.) But after we looked that over, just for grins, we checked out the 23IKS. Based on the 2D floor plan diagrams I thought I wouldn't be interested. But there is nothing like seeing the "space" in person. My wife immediately took to the IKS (and we're not even big cooking people). She liked that it had more storage space than the 21SS. And she actually liked the island in the middle.

OK. So that has led to a bunch of questions (and even considering pulling the trigger this year should we find what we like for what we want to pay with time enough to use it in September and even earlier.)

Here are the questions. Ready, fire, aim.
- Why is the 23IKS only about $1500-$1700 more expensive than the 21SS when it is 2' longer and has more storage and 2 slide outs and an island? Is the ISK less popular than the 21SS?
- The sales person said the 23SS is the least popular of the Roos. Really? Is this because they don't have any in stock? Or is it an older model?
- I noticed on the 23IKS that the kitchen slide out cuts into the useable "living" (recreating) space under the awning. Is that a nuisance for you IKS owners?
- Similarly, the outdoor grill support thing is shorter and is around on the side of the pitch slide out. Seems like that would be an inconvenience.
- The sales guy said that there will be a new batch of 2016s coming out in Aug/Sep that will no longer have the air mattress sofa as people have found it difficult to use and they are reverting to the jackknife style. Anyone hear anything on this? I kind of like the arms on the current air mattress option and to be honest we would very rarely use it as a bed.
- The sales guy claimed there is no "seasoning" required to avoid leakage.
- Any insight on what may be coming in the 2017 models? Any good reasons to wait? We would only get a couple of months use (2-3 trips in this year.)
- I saw a warped door on one of the wardrobes. The sales person said it was just needed adjustment but it certainly looked warped to me. It wouldn't latch at the bottom.
- How much more difficult is it so tow a trailer that is 2' longer? Also, the IKS is about 500lbs heavier than the 21SS though they have the same GVW which in both cases is about 6500. My towing max is 7700. OK? (I will be pulling it through the Colorado mountains but probably without or with very little water in it as we would fill up when we near our destination.)
- Any other considerations for the 23IKS? Any reasons that we should consider a different floorpan? A different maker?

Thanks in advance!

[rockfordroo]

The sales guy claimed there is no "seasoning" required to avoid leakage.

When is your salesman lying? When his lips are moving!!

How much more difficult is it so tow a trailer that is 2' longer?

I went from a Roo 19 to a Mini Lite 2503S. I don't notice too much difference towing. Backing up is a bit harder, though.

[RooVader]

I can't speak specifically to the ikss because I don't own it but there are many times I wish I did. Then again I am a professional second guesser that likes to torture myself with what ifs.

I honestly thought the ikss was more like 3k more expensive but I confess I didn't look into it very closely. I was sort of on a mission to get the smallest camper I could reasonably live with. Looking back I am not even sure why. I think the 2-3 feet and 500 pounds is really more of a psychological barrier than any sort of practical disadvantage. I am sort of a living psychological barrier so it kept me from stepping up to the larger size but after using my 21dk a lot I have never seen a situation where the extra 2 feet would have been a problem. That extra space inside would be sweet as I clearly have a mission in life and that mission is only to camp when it is raining.

Speaking of rain...and your salesman...oye. Strong with the force, he is not. Season that thing with purpose.

If this forum is a representative slice of roo nation I would dare say the ikss people, or ickies as I call them, or would if I actually called them anything, are far and away the biggest and most popular group. The dk (which I have on good authority stands for dark knight) is a pretty strong presence but those wacky ickies are everywhere. No way is it unpopular. It is such a cool floor plan but I still can't figure out how they deal with that slide under the awning. I live under the awning like vampire hiding from the sun. I am sure the interior makes up for it but that would drive me batty. Hey...vampire to batty...see how I did that?

So yeah I should have gotten the ikss. Most days. Well, except when I am in the bathroom cuz I need room to move in there I tell ya. Actually now that I mention it, I spend almost as much time battling away in there as I do under the awning. Sigh...probably a good thing I ended up with my dark knight edition roo, if only for the loo.

2017 models are like a lifetime or so away...or next May, whichever comes first. Don't wait for potential changes. Waiting is hard and why would you want to do anything the hard way?

So in summary, thank you for reminding me why I like my little dk, but for everyone not named me I say totally go all in on icky. It is crazy popular for a reason. Remember to season.

If you like canvas, and let's be honest all the cool kids do, run out and buy that bad boy. Islands rock.

[Jimandchris]

We started out looking at buying the 21ss, lots of floor space. We ended up with the 23ss, much more counter space and a lot more storage. It was a done deal when I asked the dealer how much more and it was less than 300 bucks difference. It's just the two of us usually, so there's plenty of space even when raining.
The 23ss maybe less popular now that the ikss is out, but it's still a nice floorplan, just one that's been out awhile.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, if that's what you're looking for.
I also don't think there's a big difference in towing the additional weight and 2 feet. All 3 are big sails being towed behind your vehicle.
Good luck with your decision!

[Changes_In_Latitudes]

We live our ikss and wouldn't change it. It is a little heavy though - by the time my wife packs it to the gills, my 6.2L half ton tows it with ease but does have to struggle just a bit when climbing hills (we live in mountains). Something to consider if TV is not a truck.

As for slide out under awning, it does take away a little but still plenty of room.

By the way - these pics are from camping right now. If there is anything else you'd like to see let me know.


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[Purdyquibb]

Sales people are so strange. I believe like most here they will tell you whatever they need to just to get whatever is on the lot off the lot. No need for seasoning? I'm thinking hes never owned one, Since the tag sewn on it tells you how to do it. The flip side to his "Story" about the 21 and 23SS models would be the fact that have been FR's bread and butter since about maybe '06 (Probably wrong on the date). They are the top selling units and have been for sometime. Not taking anything away from the IKSS, Its awesome and its for sure hot at the moment, Had we not got the deal we got on the 23 we would have owned one. Judging from how much trouble we had finding a 23SS that wasn't already spoken for, either they cut back production because they are not selling or someone wants to sell a ikss. One place had a 3 month waiting list on the 23ss. And one wouldn't commit to a date. I do know for sure out of the 6 or 7 dealers we visited, Everyone of them had a different story and different ideas on which one was better and why. They are all cool and they all have pro's and con's. Whatever floor plan works for you it will be awesome and you will enjoy every minute in it! And IMO, Why wait? If you have decided find your best deal and go start enjoying. Salesman..... UUGH!

[RooVader]

I have always wondered, can you guys still tilt the awning in the ikss? I feel like I am always in need of tilting mine lower and locking it for better shade.

It does look like decent coverage even with the slide.

You are right...I was browsing around out of curiosity and the ikss is only about 1500 more. Sheesh, seems like it should be more expensive given the extra slide.

There is one phrase i have never heard in the years I have been around this forum and that is "wow, I wish I had just a few less feet of room".

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by drhroo

Here are the questions. Ready, fire, aim.
- Why is the 23IKS only about $1500-$1700 more expensive than the 21SS when it is 2' longer and has more storage and 2 slide outs and an island? Is the ISK less popular than the 21SS?
no, it's just that the 23IKSS is the new hot Roo/Shamrock hybrid.
- The sales person said the 23SS is the least popular of the Roos. Really? Is this because they don't have any in stock? Or is it an older model?
as was said, the 23SS and 21SS has been around since 2005/2006 and have been the most popular floorplans until the 233S came out and then the 23IKSS came out.
- I noticed on the 23IKS that the kitchen slide out cuts into the useable "living" (recreating) space under the awning. Is that a nuisance for you IKS owners?
- Similarly, the outdoor grill support thing is shorter and is around on the side of the pitch slide out. Seems like that would be an inconvenience.
- The sales guy said that there will be a new batch of 2016s coming out in Aug/Sep that will no longer have the air mattress sofa as people have found it difficult to use and they are reverting to the jackknife style. Anyone hear anything on this? I kind of like the arms on the current air mattress option and to be honest we would very rarely use it as a bed.
- The sales guy claimed there is no "seasoning" required to avoid leakage.
obviously, this guy knows nothing about hybrids OR popups, both needing seasoning for the canvas. find a different salesperson who actually knows something about the product. most RV salespeople know very little about RV's or actually own one.
- Any insight on what may be coming in the 2017 models? Any good reasons to wait? We would only get a couple of months use (2-3 trips in this year.)
RV manufacturers can make changes mid-model year so there's no telling what's coming in the new year until some of them start trickling in.
- I saw a warped door on one of the wardrobes. The sales person said it was just needed adjustment but it certainly looked warped to me. It wouldn't latch at the bottom.
one of our wardrobe door, latches in two places. when it only latches on one, it can look warped.
- How much more difficult is it so tow a trailer that is 2' longer? Also, the IKS is about 500lbs heavier than the 21SS though they have the same GVW which in both cases is about 6500. My towing max is 7700. OK? (I will be pulling it through the Colorado mountains but probably without or with very little water in it as we would fill up when we near our destination.)
your biggest issue will be your vehicle's payload capacity and its extremely short wheelbase. i also believe that they discourage using a WDH with your vehicle. you need to check the payload capacity on hte driver's door sticker and research using a WDH. i'd recommend a Hensley or ProPride WDH for that vehicle.
- Any other considerations for the 23IKS? Any reasons that we should consider a different floorpan? A different maker?

Thanks in advance!

personally, i wouldn't tow any HTT/TT with a vehicle that the manufacturer discourages using a WDH. Honda is the same way. that's why we scratched the Ridgeline off of our list.

if their vehicle can't handle the stresses due to a WDH(usually due to unibody construction), it's not a good choice for a tow vehicle.

[DK-in-SC]

IKSS owner here. For us, it is the perfect floor plan. When we camp there are at least four of us plus the dog, but we've had as many as eight sleeping in it before and it worked out just fine. The amount of interior room is what sold us. Small package to tow, but when you get to camp and open the bunks and deploy the two slides it is huge. Yes, it does cut into the awning space slightly, but the interior room was our priority. There is still enough room under the awning for four chairs and the awning can be tilted side to side or lowered as needed.
The grill attaches to a swinging arm on the back bumper. Once connected it can swing under the back bunk to keep it out of the rain, or swing out when you are ready to cook. The bracket on the side of the camper can be used for the black shelf which is the perfect place to hold your food, cold beverage and BBQ tools. I like the setup.
We've used the air bed a lot and have had no trouble. It is quick to setup and inflate, is comfortable for sleeping, and holds the air well. I know some have had bad luck with it but ours has been great.
The best advice I can offer is to visit as many dealers and walk through as many floor plans as possible. Roos and Shamrocks are the same campers with different decals and interior colors, so see if there is a Shamrock dealer nearby. The more you are able to see, the easier your decision will be. You may also want to go to an RV show - great way to see a lot of models at once. The shows are usually in late winter. Good luck in your search.



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[Changes_In_Latitudes]

Awning has a decent tilt to it to start, but you are restricted. Mine right now is a tad low (resting on the slide out). I'll adjust in a bit - doesn't hurt it but I pull it up more if there is wind so it's not slapping against it. Grill is in this pic as well.

PS - be careful of the RV shows. I went "just to look" and I came home with this.


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[Stormrider151]

We had a 2012 23ss and I wish we still had it. That was the best built easiest towing trailer we ever owned. The sales guy you talked to might do better selling vacuum cleaners because he certainly doesn't know anything about Travel trailers. I would most certainly look elsewhere for your trailer. frankly I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three. Good luck in your search and welcome aboard.

[Kanga99]

Cleveland, Ohio to Yellowstone and back. 2 weeks. 4115 miles. Great trip and the 23IKSS worked out great. Plenty of room under the awning. Not sure about the new models or why the weight difference or price come into play. Bottom line is if you like it and can tow it well you will not be disappointed. I tow with a 2010 F150 Supercrew with a 5.4 V8 with tow package. I upgraded to a tall cap and really like it. At 65mph I can feel the airflow off the cap kick in and everything smooths out. Even in the mountains I was going the speed limit up over the passes. So, I would say it all depends on your TV. The only problem we are having is that the floor leaks where the slides don't seal correctly over the wheel. Both slides are right over the wheel wells and the spray off the tires apparently makes its way past the seals. Warranty issue for sure. I was kind of concerned that you have to run out one of the slides to get to the kitchen or bathroom but it was not an issue at all. Kitchen slide runs out in 20 seconds then you are open. Did it every day on the road at rest areas for lunch with no problem. The new sofa bed does not have an air bed. It now comes with cushions and is pretty comfy. We did get a full size air mattress to put on top and it makes a great bed when not opening the tend ends. I will post on the 23IKSS thread about some interesting mods I have made. All in all a great, highly recommended unit.

[jking46]

Either of the 23 units are great. I wanted the ss because it was 500 lbs lighter and 1500 dollars cheaper. Wife wanted ikss for extra storage and floorspace. We are proud owners of an ikss. Funny how that works out. Actually it's worked out great. Plenty of room for the two of us and grandkids if they come along. Like you I was concerned about towing since our previous camper was a pop up. No problem. Easy pull, easy stop. Backing up using only mirrors was a bit of a challenge but still ok.
Now, towing for you may be more of an issue. I tow with a Ram 1500 . I towed once across town using wifes 2008 Durango and didn't enjoy it one bit. Too short a wheelbase , less power, and less brake. Even though your vehicle is rated to handle the weight , it may not be able to handle the aerodynamic drag of an 8ft wide barn door being pulled down the road. Also check your payload capacity. Tongue weght plus cargo plus passengers may put you over the top.
But back to the camper.... if you can pull it, get it. For those of us who like the canvas lifestyle, I don't think you can do better. Good luck .

[RedStick]

We went with the 23ss but the 233s and ikss were under heavy consideration.

We bring 3 bikes with us and haul inside the trailer. I couldn't see how I could haul those with the ikss.

In the end, counter space won the day along with the extra closet space. The 23ss is perfect for us (me, wife, son and dog).

As others have said, you can't go wrong with any of the Roo's if you are in to the hybrid trailers.


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[muskoka01]

ikss owner. love it. bought mine this year we looked at the 23ss and the ikss won out hands down , storage and the island was what sold me, i pull mine with a 2012 f150 with Eco boost with no issues. backing it up is much easyer than my old hard top camper, the bbq placement is a little odd , but can live with it. plenty of floor space.

[drhroo]

Originally Posted by bikendan

personally, i wouldn't tow any HTT/TT with a vehicle that the manufacturer discourages using a WDH. Honda is the same way. that's why we scratched the Ridgeline off of our list.

if their vehicle can't handle the stresses due to a WDH(usually due to unibody construction), it's not a good choice for a tow vehicle.

Yes, I'll need to check on the use of a WDH with my Land Rover. It does have towing stability assist (uses the traction control system to pull the trailer back in line should something happen and I understand from owners it is pretty slick) but I also know some use a WDH.

At 5,655 lbs (body on frame) and a 113" wheel base my LR4 is not a truck but it is also not a "crossover" SUV. The "max" hitch weight is 550lbs (though some have used it with tongue weights as high as 800) which though close, should not be an issue with the 558 lbs tongue weight of the 23IKS. (Interestingly, the 21SS has a hitch weight of 674 and that may have been more of a problem so it is looking like I would be better off with the larger trailer.)

A number of LR4 owners I know pull boats and Airstream trailers that are heavier than the 23IKS.

The issue will be the "sail" as someone described it and the fact that I need to pull it over mountain passes in Colorado. The 2014 model of the LR4 went from a V8 to a super-charged V6. Horsepower and torque dropped a bit but are still respectable with 332 ft-lbs at 3500 and 340 hp at 6500. Some have said that the supercharger actually helps at elevation and most of my pulling will be at elevation. It has an 8-speed transmission and I also have 4L should I need to go there.

My wife and I are not "heavy campers" and I plan to do my water fill after traveling over the passes and dumping before the return trip whenever possible.

Actually, the bigger issue may be me learning that I simply need to get in line in the right hand lane behind the semis on the way up the mountain passes and swallow my pride. At least I'll be having more fun where I am going than they will. And when I get there I'll have my "truck" to go play off road.

[DK-in-SC]

Send a PM to Stickfigure - she has a LR4 and may be able to give you some good feedback.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ad.php?t=67122


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[drhroo]

Thanks again to all of you. This is great. I started reading some of these to my wife - beginning with one from roovader - and she said it makes her more excited about getting one!

I addressed the TV question previously. Yes, I agree that a truck - especially one with a ton of torque - would be great. But I think I'll be OK. We chatted with a family camping near Leadville, CO a couple of weeks ago who were pulling a 25' hybrid with a Dodge Durango 6 cyl. and with much less HP and torque than I have. And they felt fine with it. So I should be OK.

jking46 - I hear you. I went into this thinking that the island didn't make sense. Then my wife walked into the IKS model. Now it looks like the IKS will be the one for us. ;-) Oh, and yes, I am a bit nervous about backing up. I told my wife that setup on this thing is great. Just a few minutes. But that getting it in exactly the right spot in the site so that I can get just the right view and be level and ... that will take at least an hour.

kanga99 - what is a tail cap? Also, not happy to hear about your leaking issues. Are we sure this is an anomaly and not an engineering/systemic problem with the IKS model?

As to the question of the air bed, I saw another thread here on this topic. I "think" the sofa in the demos we looked at were "air beds"? Pretty simple to pull out from the bottom and "stretch" it into a bed. But to be honest, for us the use as a bed is nearly unimportant. 99% of the time I will be using it as a couch. Someone else mentioned that the airbed has "arms" when used as a couch but that the other type (jacknife?) doesn't have arms. Is that true? I liked the sofa when sitting in it and would definitely want arms. I'll need to look into that.

As for the slide out taking up space under the awning, I'll adjust to that. When we had a pop up many years ago we rarely used the awning. It was handy to provide a sort of porch but we were usually hanging out elsewhere. So it probably isn't a big deal. And thanks for explaining, whoever it was, how the BBQ works. I wondered what that mount was on the rear bumper.

And, yes, I hear you all loud and clear. I will season with gusto - when/if we pull the trigger and get one. (And I'll likely get a set of PUGs!)

[drhroo]

Originally Posted by Changes_In_Latitudes

We live our ikss and wouldn't change it. It is a little heavy though - by the time my wife packs it to the gills, my 6.2L half ton tows it with ease but does have to struggle just a bit when climbing hills (we live in mountains). Something to consider if TV is not a truck.

As for slide out under awning, it does take away a little but still plenty of room. Attachment 82631Attachment 82632

By the way - these pics are from camping right now. If there is anything else you'd like to see let me know.


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Thanks for the pics! That helps. Good to see someone enjoying their rig.

[drhroo]

Originally Posted by DK-in-SC

Send a PM to Stickfigure - she has a LR4 and may be able to give you some good feedback.

Homebound in our 23ikss !! - Forest River Forums


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Thanks. Just did. Saw her pic. Looks good.