Electric heater in your Hybrid?

wardster · 10-05-2017, 08:52 AM

I'll be in my Shamrock a lot this "winter". I use quotes because winter in South Georgia is much different than other areas!!
If I were to go the electric route, have people used ceramic space heaters with good results? Would 1 standing oil filled radiator style heater provide heat to the bunks? I don't see temps getting below freezer often at all, but possible.

I will be running off generator, not in a campground. I know I can use furnace, but if the genny is running already I was thinking I might as well use the electricity.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Shamrockthecasbah · 10-05-2017, 09:21 AM

Personally, if I was using a generator I will just use my propane to heat hot water and run the furnace. An electric space heater is going to draw 12-13 amps which is a pretty heavy load on your generator for the amount of heat you will get. You'll be burning more gas in your generator as a result so I will just use the propane and only run my generator as needed to charge batteries and for Microwave, toaster, etc.

rockfordroo · 10-05-2017, 09:57 AM

Maybe do both. If you run the furnace on LP, you'll also be powering the blower, which will deplete the battery. So maybe run the furnace at night, and during the day, while you're recharging the battery, run the electric heater (assuming your genny can support both together).

wardster · 10-05-2017, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Maybe do both. If you run the furnace on LP, you'll also be powering the blower, which will deplete the battery. So maybe run the furnace at night, and during the day, while you're recharging the battery, run the electric heater (assuming your genny can support both together).

Good point, but will probably have to do the reverse and run the genny at night. Need the 110 working for a CPAP.

rsdata · 10-05-2017, 10:12 AM

I would look into using a Mr. Heater Big Buddy heater. They are safe for indoor use. Have used one for 20 years without any ill effect. I know lots will say you will die in an enclosed area, but that is what these heaters are made for.
Get the official Mr Heater adapter for 20# tanks. Propane much cheaper than gas for genny

Buddy Series - Heaters - Product

I also find that running a small fan just to get circulation around the hybrid works wonders... get the heat off the ceiling and into the living space.

wardster · 10-05-2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsdata

I would look into using a Mr. Heater Big Buddy heater. They are safe for indoor use. Have used one for 20 years without any ill effect. I know lots will say you will die in an enclosed area, but that is what these heaters are made for.
Get the official Mr Heater adapter for 20# tanks. Propane much cheaper than gas for genny

Buddy Series - Heaters - Product

I also find that running a small fan just to get circulation around the hybrid works wonders... get the heat off the ceiling and into the living space.

Thanks. I was looking at this too. I'm not sure how I could tap into the 20lb tanks though.

**Flybob** · 10-05-2017, 10:36 AM

If you are going to be at a semi-permanent site, you might want to look at renting larger non portable propane tanks. The 20lb tanks on most TT are not designed for long term winter use.

Wiscampsin · 10-05-2017, 10:41 AM

Consider doing the Reflectix mod in the bunk end window areas and space blankets, silver side down, on the bunk end roofs. Both will kelp keep some heat in.

RACarvalho · 10-05-2017, 10:42 AM

For temperatures going below 50's we use:
1 - the trailer gas heater
2 - the mattress heater
3 - Two of the below heaters, one in each bed, hanging from the bolt that secure the bed door steel wires.
The heaters hanging there are pointed to the inside of the tent beds so they provide heat and air circulation, avoiding that you get condensation in the tents, we already had 3 kids sleeping in one bed in cold weather and no condensation - it works great.
As an additional measure, turn on your mattress heaters (we use level 5) 1/2 hour before you go to bed and put a blanket on top of the bed - it will be warm when you finally go to bed....

Nothing like a warm and cozy bed under canvas in a cold night....

https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-100-MyH.../dp/B003XDTWN2

rsdata · 10-05-2017, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Thanks. I was looking at this too. I'm not sure how I could tap into the 20lb tanks though.

Well, you could tap into the camper system, but I would rather get a 30# or even a 40# tank. I use a 40# tank around the house when it is cold enough for heat, but not cold enough to light a fire in the wood stove. I leave my expensive heat pump OFF as much as I can. Typically will last me about 8-10 days of about 6-8 hours usage per day and that is enough to heat my living room and kitchen area.

This appliance does not have a thermostat so heat will vary depending on the heat setting you apply. Works well because it adds a bit of humidity to the air when burning propane, although that may not be a problem in GA.

67L48 · 10-05-2017, 10:53 AM

I'll start with the last recommendation on using a Big Buddy heater. I have the Mr. Buddy and Big Buddy heaters. I love them. I used to use them in a tent with the 20 lb adapters. In hindsight, I don't think this was very smart.

I won't get into all of the combustion equations and stoichiometry, but instead I'll summarize. In complete combustion, with abundant oxygen, propane burns to produce only carbon dioxide, water, and heat. In the real world, for myriad reasons, oxygen is limited (at least part of the time). That's why we see soot, for example. This is just carbon and is an indication of some incomplete combustion. Another product of incomplete combustion is carbon monoxide.

The Buddy heaters have an oxygen sensor on them. When oxygen gets too low, the heater assumes that there is risk of producing CO, and it shuts off. This is why the heaters have an altitude rating on them. I believe it is 7,000 feet. Above this level, the naturally occurring amount of oxygen in the atmosphere is too low. The sensor will detect this and not allow the heater to work.

I've used mine at 11,000 feet without issue. They are a little more finicky, but they work. Why? They shouldn't be working!! I'm not convinced that the oxygen sensor is reliable. And, since it's just a proxy sensor for the deadly CO gas, that makes me nervous.

So, use them indoors. Mr. Heater (manufacturer) states that they're safe for indoor use, I believe. They didn't state that in the early 2000s when I bought mine. But, I'd buy a cheap CO detector. You can get battery powered ones for $20-$50. That's what I'd do if I were to use my Buddy heaters indoors and I'm sheepish to admit I didn't do that back in the early days of tent camping. Foolish.

The other issue is something I mentioned above that you might have caught. Combustion produces water. Lots of water. It's a 4:1 ratio! For every mole (or part) of propane you burn, you create 4 moles (or parts) of water vapor. Makes for a lot of condensation inside tents, campers, etc.

Furnaces don't suffer from either issue, because they separate the heat from the exhaust. CO2, CO, carbon, water vapor, etc. all get blown out the side of your trailer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamrockthecasbah

[...] I will just use my propane to heat hot water [...]

I'm going on record to state that heating hot water is a massive waste of time and energy. I'd save my propane to heat cold water. Hot water doesn't need to be heated. It's fine. Use it as is.

But, the issue of furnace vs electric heaters may tip the scales to propane in an either-or scenario. Run furnace at night off battery. Use generators to recharge batteries.

When I would camp in cold weather (Memorial Day in CO brings snow most of the time), neither was good enough for my popup trailer. The issue I had was the bunk ends and air flow. The furnace was on one end of the trailer, so would heat about 3/4 of the space and occupants. So, I ran a ceramic heater in the opposite direction to heat up the other end. I loved that heater ... loved it so much that it stayed with me when I sold the popup.

So, depending on the setup, it may not be an either-or scenario. It might be a "both" proposition.

Good luck.

rsdata · 10-05-2017, 11:07 AM

If you went with the Big Buddy heater, get this 12 foot hose coupled with a 40# tank... leave the tank outside and feed the hose in thru the side window by the sink. Cram a towel for insulation into the other window cracks. Set Mr Heater on a counter up out of the way.

As far as soot and not having enough oxygen... I think you said you are camping in Georgia... not much high altitude problems there I would think. I would crack a roof vent and with the window cracked you will not have a big problem with moisture... certainly depending on the outside humidity levels.

Get some thick throw rugs for the floor.

I would also strongly consider getting this small 2 cycle genny from Harbor Freight. It is not loud, and can be contained in a small box made of foam insulation to keep it even quieter... examples of these boxes can be found on youtube. It sips a gallon of gas every 8 hours and will provide enough electric (probably) to keep your electric mattress going and a circulation fan all night. The Tailgator often goes on sale for $89. I have used one of these genies for about a dozen years. Finally had to put in a new spark plug last year.

67L48 · 10-05-2017, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsdata

[...] As far as soot and not having enough oxygen... I think you said you are camping in Georgia... not much high altitude problems there I would think. [...]

You may be missing the point. High altitude is a reason for lack of oxygen and incomplete combustion. High altitude isn't the reason. As stated, there are myriad reasons why, at the point of combustion, oxygen levels are too low to sustain complete combustion.

Spend the extra $20 and buy a battery-powered CO detector. Done and done.

I don't want to be alarmist. As I said, I used my heaters in a small tent without issue. Many people do. But, here is an example of a couple that used a "safe for indoors" propane heater in a location well below 1000 feet.

Is this the common story? No, it isn't. It's the outlier case. But, for $20, why wouldn't you just grab a CO detector from Amazon or some other place?

jamesbunch · 10-05-2017, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardster

I'll be in my Shamrock a lot this "winter". I use quotes because winter in South Georgia is much different than other areas!!
If I were to go the electric route, have people used ceramic space heaters with good results? Would 1 standing oil filled radiator style heater provide heat to the bunks? I don't see temps getting below freezer often at all, but possible.

I will be running off generator, not in a campground. I know I can use furnace, but if the genny is running already I was thinking I might as well use the electricity.

Appreciate your thoughts.

We have a Solaire Hybrid and use a ceramic heater and it keeps us nice and toasty. We are running off of campground power and not a generator though. Would much rather use their electricity than our propane. Unless the weather is bad, we also do all of our cooking outside with electric toaster oven, griddle and hot plates. Again, their electricity is better than our propane.

**bikendan** · 10-05-2017, 01:07 PM

We have used both a oil-filled heater and a ceramic heater in our hybrid.

Dave Lyon · 10-05-2017, 01:27 PM

If you have all three bunks open, you're going to have a lot of uninsulated space/volume to heat. You may need to run both a ceramic heater and your furnace depending on the temperature.

**bikendan** · 10-05-2017, 02:08 PM

Do you have PUGs and Reflectix for the tent ends?

rsdata · 10-05-2017, 03:59 PM

I have done the last 6 January-February-March time frames in camps in the FL panhandle. It has gotten cold and some blowing snow flakes ( those Alberta clippers, etc.) but usually for only 4-6 days at a time. Most of the time it was 40 at night and 50+ during the day. I don't think Georgia weather is all that much colder...

Never needed anything more then either a ceramic heater OR a Mr. Heater on at night... and I had a popup for 3 of those years, then a 3 bunk hybrid for the last 3.

I think you will be fine.

Waterops1 · 10-05-2017, 04:25 PM

Apologies if this issue was already raised, don’t think I saw it: As to the comment that the generator is already running, it has been stated that the electric heater will draw more amps/add to the load. This will decrease the running time and that would potentially result in the generator quitting at, say, oh-dark-thirty. That wouldn’t bode well for my wife on her CPAP. CG with electric, I would use theirs. Boondocking, I’d stick to propane.

rockfordroo · 10-05-2017, 07:08 PM

Camco makes catalytic heaters in 3,000 - 6,000 - 8,000 btu versions. Can mount on a wall, or get legs to stand free. No power required. Then just use your genny for your CPAP.

Olympian Wave-3

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