GVWR Scared Now

[DSN46]

Okay, I know this post may belong in another section, but you folks have been so great with answers, I feel more comfortable right here.

I just got back from the certified scales. They could only weigh the total vehicle weight (not individual axles). My Suburban has a door sticker GVWR of 7200#. With whole family loaded plus the usual tools I carry in the back and full tank of gas it came up 6200#! Oh man... WTH?

After doing all of the math for GVWR subtracting for WDH weight, trailer tongue weight and family, I have only 270# left over for suitcases and "junk" inside the TV. But even then, I'm at the max!!

I am under the GM factory rating numbers for GCWR by 3500#, and the trailer loaded (not dry) will weigh about 5000 lbs (no tanks full). So I feel safe with those two numbers (until I climb my first mountain I'm sure). But that GVWR scares me.

Am I going to kill my family and possibly others on the road by having the GVWR at the limit??

Thoughts on this please as I don't want to take risks with peoples' lives.

Any "real world" experience towing with a Suburban 1500 (4.10 axle, 2WD)?

You guys have been wonderful, thank you!

James

[donn]

Kill somebody? Probably not. However from my experiences you will not be a happy camper. I assume by the numbers you have a 1500 burb. Only thing I can suggest get a 2500 suburban or start thinking in terms of a tent trailer.

[DSN46]

Thanks Donn!

It is a 2004 1500 Burban with 4.10 axle. We are committed to the 233s for many reasons at this point. Leaving behind our Jayco Pop Up because of space reasons (we have 4 kids that are getting bigger everyday!).

When you say "won't be a happy camper" do mean in terms of actual control of the whole convoy or power to get up hills?

James

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by DSN46

My Suburban has a door sticker GVWR of 7200#. With whole family loaded plus the usual tools I carry in the back and full tank of gas it came up 6200#! Oh man... WTH?

OK, I am confused, sorry.
What exactly did you weight?

Was it just the Suburban with the family and your "stuff" on board or were you connected to the camper?

Also I don't remember doing a work up on your TV.

What is the year, model, engine, options (like Max Tow Package, etc)
GVWR varies by year and options, so we can't be more specific without more data on your truck.

Speaking just to the safety of exceeding the GVWR of the vehicle, it depends on by how much, how, and how often. Throwing a load of paving stones in the truck for a 5 mile ride from the home store ONCE may do no permanent damage to the truck (might cause arm strain from the death grip on the wheel though). Routinely overloading it every week may result in a blown trans or engine; cracked frame; or suspension damage. As you are seeing; PULLING a load is not quite the same thing as CARRYING a load. Towing a camper that is too heavy has other issues you might need to ponder.

BUT FACTS are needed for you to assess the risk and make a valid decision.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by DSN46

Thanks Donn!

It is a 2004 1500 Burban with 4.10 axle. We are committed to the 233s for many reasons at this point. Leaving behind our Jayco Pop Up because of space reasons (we have 4 kids that are getting bigger everyday!).

When you say "won't be a happy camper" do mean in terms of actual control of the whole convoy or power to get up hills?

James

Was busy typing when you posted this. Let me see what we are looking at. what year is the 233s?

Lou

[boubou]

I went through the exact same thing last year and it's not a good feeling at all.
My truck weight in at 6173 loaded and my GVWR is 6700.
Turns out most 1/2 ton truck has the same problem when towing. I am actually 225 lbs over my payload on the truck while towing with a 1500 Ram and a 5800 lbs loaded trailer.
I know this isn't helping you any other than letting you know you are certainly not the only one, but more likely amongst the majority. That being said, I think 5000 lbs trailer for your Suburban will be just fine. Look at the other 1500 pulling 5th wheels.

[DSN46]

Lou,

Vehicle: 2004 Suburban LT 1500 2WD with 4.10 axle ratio and 5.3 motor.
Door sticker says: GVWR 7200#, GAWR Front 3200#, GAWR Rear 4000#.
GM says: Towing capacity 8200# with WDH.
I found a "trailering guide" on some website that I cannot remember now that says that my TV with 4.10 axle ratio has GCWR of 14000# (I think GM is lying).

When I went to the scales, they weighed the entire vehicle with all family members and the everyday stuff I keep in the back. 6200# No Trailer.

Hope that clears things up.

Thank you,

James

[DSN46]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Was busy typing when you posted this. Let me see what we are looking at. what year is the 233s?

Lou

It is a 2012 Roo 233s. The yellow sticker on the side says 4300# weight as it is equipped now (AC, furnishings, propane tanks and battery). It says hitch weight is 647#.

James

[DSN46]

Originally Posted by boubou

I went through the exact same thing last year and it's not a good feeling at all.
My truck weight in at 6173 loaded and my GVWR is 6700.
Turns out most 1/2 ton truck has the same problem when towing. I am actually 225 lbs over my payload on the truck while towing with a 1500 Ram and a 5800 lbs loaded trailer.
I know this isn't helping you any other than letting you know you are certainly not the only one, but more likely amongst the majority. That being said, I think 5000 lbs trailer for your Suburban will be just fine. Look at the other 1500 pulling 5th wheels.

Thanks for the encouragement boubou!

James

[OldCoot]

Power with a 4.10 rear end will not be a problem. I pull with a 5.3L Silverado and a 3.23 rear end. Pulled all over the Smokeys with no problem. We don't try to go 55 or 60 up the mountains, but so what? We are not in a hurry. You sure won't have a problem pulling a 4600# dry wt camper as far as power goes.

[DSN46]

dunnnc,
Thank you for your response. I PM sent back to you.

James

[Herk7769]

Sorry, I got called to dinner while running the numbers,

OK, good news I think.

The max gross weight (the only way to deal with a camper you can't weigh) for the 233s Roo is 5,964 pounds.

At a 10% tongue load the weight carried by the Burban will be about 600 pounds.

At 13% (Optimum) you are looking at 900 pounds

At max tongue load of 15% you are at 900 pounds and that would be too heavy. So loading will be an issue.

The 2004 5.3L 1500 2WD with a 4.10 rear has a max gross weight of 7,000 pounds as you found out.

What concerns me is the Curb weight of your model Suburan is 5,323 pounds. That is you (at 150 pounds) and a full tank of gas.

You weighed the Suburban with your family and your "stuff" at 6200 pounds. Than means your family, your weight that exceeds 150 pounds, and your stuff weighs 877 pounds. Lets leave that number alone for a minute.

Assuming you buy a 10,000 pound rated WD hitch, it should weigh in at about 75 pounds. So say your rig with hitch weighs 6275.

That is 725 pounds available for tongue load. That is a load out of 12.2% and well in the safe zone.

Obviously you can't move your family to the camper, but for every pound of "stuff" you can move to the camper (careful not to exceed the GVWR of the camper) you can only improve your overall rig balance.

Remember a WD hitch does not CHANGE the tongue weight just moves it around between the front and trailer axles. Be very aware of your front and rear Gross Axle rating, but it looks like you will be "safe" towing your camper even at ITS GVWR. You just need to watch what gets put in the Suburban.

Hope that helps.

[MtnGuy]

I agree with Lou. With a 1000 lb. of leeway on the Burb after loading gear and passengers, you should still have a couple of hundred lbs. to go before reaching your GVWR. The WDH will throw some weight back on the trailer axles....maybe 120 lbs. or so as in my case.

With my F150, I am within about 200-300 lbs of my GVWR, and I feel that I am going down the road as safe as possible.

Also as Lou stated, as long as you don't go over the GVWR of the trailer, or the GCWR of the Burb, you can load some of your gear in the camper.

If only everyone went to the trouble of checking things out before they buy.

[DSN46]

It helps immensely! Thank you Lou!

If you are "wondering" where all the extra weight in the vehicle comes from, I can tell you. "No"... it is not my family (I weigh 190, wife comes in at a whopping 138 and the biggest kid we have is 80 lbs). Our family makes up about 500 pounds of it. The rest of it all my own fault...

Warn Trans4mer front winch mount with 9000lb winch.
Nitto Terra Grappler All Terrain tires, 33 inches, Load range E that way 80 pounds each mounted.
100 lbs of "stuff" in a drawer system in the back cargo area (got used to having it in my career....kinda stuck on me).

So there you have all the "mystery weight".

Thank you again for your insight Lou.

James

[DSN46]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

I agree with Lou. With a 1000 lb. of leeway on the Burb after loading gear and passengers, you should still have a couple of hundred lbs. to go before reaching your GVWR. The WDH will throw some weight back on the trailer axles....maybe 120 lbs. or so as in my case.

With my F150, I am within about 200-300 lbs of my GVWR, and I feel that I am going down the road as safe as possible.

Also as Lou stated, as long as you don't go over the GVWR of the trailer, or the GCWR of the Burb, you can load some of your gear in the camper.

If only everyone went to the trouble of checking things out before they buy.

Thanks mtnguy!

The reason for my apparent panic is that I went only by what manufacturers put in literature (both camper and Suburban). According to their numbers I was golden. After we put the deposit down on the camper, I started rolling the numbers over in my mind and they didn't add up the same.... hence, I have come here to this forum for real world advice to make darn sure that my equipment will hold up until such time that we need to buy another TV.

I will most probably, at that time, step up a notch just for the added buffer of the kids getting heavier as they grow.

James

[Sgt. Schultz]

To the OP be sure to know what local regulations state - for example Tips and Advice for Towing a Trailer in Alberta or BC | AMA Auto & Driving - the guide shows one jurisdiction uses GCWR and the second referenced uses on GVWR + GAWR to determine compliance. As noted above you should be able to balance you load to fall under the specs for both TV + TT

[donn]

Originally Posted by DSN46

Thanks Donn!

It is a 2004 1500 Burban with 4.10 axle. We are committed to the 233s for many reasons at this point. Leaving behind our Jayco Pop Up because of space reasons (we have 4 kids that are getting bigger everyday!).

When you say "won't be a happy camper" do mean in terms of actual control of the whole convoy or power to get up hills?

James

By that I mean the towing experience could be extremely unpleasent to say the least. When I was towing my fiver with too little of a truck I would arrive so unnerved it would take several hours for me to caslm down. Regardless of the numbers I think you are do close tou will not be pleased.

[Labzy]

I used to have the words 'glorified grocery getter' after my TV in my signature; so believe me I know what you are feeling. We have 1100lbs of payload in our Ram for the family, cargo and TW
Needless to say my DD is only allowed 1 paperback book to bring along for the rides because 2 would probably put us over the GVWR.

Just load your TV and TT properly, drive responsibly, and you will be just fine.

You are doing the right thing being on here asking questions; just think of the hundreds of people driving around the country that are over their limits, either due to ignorance or disregard.

Enjoy your new TT!!!

[DSN46]

Originally Posted by donn

By that I mean the towing experience could be extremely unpleasent to say the least. When I was towing my fiver with too little of a truck I would arrive so unnerved it would take several hours for me to caslm down. Regardless of the numbers I think you are do close tou will not be pleased.

You may quite possibly be right. I know very well what it is like to have to "work" while you drive and how it can wear you out after hours of it. It can make a trip less enjoyable to be sure. But, alas, we cannot afford to buy anything else now... all the money we saved went to the trailer.

I will come back and report how the whole rig performed after our first towing experince.

James

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by DSN46

I will come back and report how the whole rig performed after our first towing experince.

Getting your WDH setup properly will be the key to how the trailer handles.

I don't remember seeing anything in the thread, but a WDH with integrated sway control should be used. Reese Straight Line Dual Cam, Equal-i-zer 4 pt., or Blue Ox Sway Pro all seem to work well. Hensley or ProPride if you have the big bucks.