New 2013 Roo factory issues

[JohnF]

It's called a warranty not a guarantee......there is a difference. I use to do some plumbing. If I installed a hot water heater for instance, I never guaranteed it to work, I warrantied it. If it didn't work, I repaired or replaced it. As long as they repair the defect they have not gone back on their word.

I actually prefer to make the minor repairs I find on my TT. My work is generally better than theirs, unless of course something needs replaced. My dealer has been good about any problems. That's why I chose them after asking around about their history.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

If the RV manufacturers made a camper to the quality levels that people expect of them, nobody would buy it because it would cost $80k and weigh 2-3000# more. The closesest is Airstream, and they are quite pricey compared to other RVs. Here's a bit of insight for ya. FR (and the others) know exactly how much they spend in warranty claims. They weigh that versus the cost of solving warranty issues and they are running in the most profitable region of that curve. In other words, they could eleminate most of those defects, but the costs involved would be more than the costs of warranty work. They aint dummies. Why spend $3mil fixing an issue that will only cost you $2mil in warranty claims?

People want a lightweight $25k camper with $75k quality. I hate to bust bubbles here, but it aint gonna happen. I had to fix 4 things on my brand new camper. There was plastic shavings blocking the sink spout in the kitchen, the back of the sofa was loose, a fitting on the pump wasn't tight and dribbled a little, and one speaker for the stereo didn't work. It took a lazy afternoon to repair those things.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will spend more time on the internet complaining about poor quality than it would take to just fix it. In life there is trade-offs, and I'm happy to trade lower cost for MINOR quality issues like that.

Of course, if the axles fall off the thing, that's a whole other story...

Tim

You make some good points, but the 4 problems you mentioned on your own camper wouldn't have cost a lot for the company to correct on the front end, thereby saving you and other customers from the frustration.

Hiring good workers with good work ethics and training them well on attention to detail.....a company doesn't have to do an expensive re-tool to accomplish that.

[sirbob]

Originally Posted by JohnF

It's called a warranty not a guarantee......there is a difference. I use to do some plumbing. If I installed a hot water heater for instance, I never guaranteed it to work, I warrantied it. If it didn't work, I repaired or fixed it. As long as they repair the defect they have not gone back on their word.

I actually prefer to make the minor repairs I find on my TT. My work is generally better than theirs, unless of course something needs replaced. My dealer has been good about any problems. That's why I chose them after asking around about their history.

Shouldn't the warranty be a guarantee of the product to work? What your saying is, if I buy something new, it doesn't matter if the quality is bad and doesn't work from the factory, as long as I have a warranty I should be glad? That doesn't say "reliability" or "quality" to me as a consumer on the product.

And I absolutely agree about performing minor repairs myself. I find that I pay more attention to detail and the quality of work. However, to expect everyone to be able to do the same is just not realistic in terms of repairs or mechanical knowledge. Which is why, IMO, some folks hold such high standards in the product and or the manufacturer's service. There's an expectation for that product that you paid for, regardless of cost, to perform the way it is advertised.

[JohnF]

I could do everything right on a job and still have something fail down the road. It could be a flaw in a copper fitting that caused it to leak or a burr on a plastic gear that caused it to strip on a water softener. Thus I could not guarantee them they would not have any problems, I could only guarantee them that if a problem arose, I would be back to fix it free of charge and that's what a warrantee does. I believe it would be almost impossible to guarantee something would work without flaw every time. Even though I think I do pretty good work I could never be sure it is without flaw every time.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by mjones12

You make some good points, but the 4 problems you mentioned on your own camper wouldn't have cost a lot for the company to correct on the front end, thereby saving you and other customers from the frustration.

Hiring good workers with good work ethics and training them well on attention to detail.....a company doesn't have to do an expensive re-tool to accomplish that.

Workers or their ethics are not the problem. Neither is the actual fixing of the problems. The testing required to detect every potential problem would require huge commitments in capital, manpower and above all, production time. Especially since a sizeable fraction of the issues are not their own, but due to their vendors.

In a produciton line enviroment, you train your workers to do a specific task in a specific way, and to worry only about thier tasks. I have a engineer freind that showed me a flowery letter he got from his bosses at Chrysler for devising a clip that saved 3 cents and 6 seconds on car assembly over the previous screw. You'd have thought he cured cancer... The name of the game is assemble, then inspect. "Attention to detail" is one of the last things they want. Surely if a guy pulls a broken window off the rack, he will discard it and grab a new one to install in the RV. But other than that, he does his task and moves down the line

Boiled down, if they doubled the time spent on inspections and doubled the $$$ spent on quality initiatives, they would not hope to see half the number of warranty issues. They might drop 15-20% at best. its a vanishing-benefit curve, and you can bet they are operating in the optimal dollar vs. return part of it.

Tim

[rockfordroo]

I just bought a John Deere D130 lawn mower tractor last week. Delivered Saturday in the pouring rain. Ran it into the garage and there it sits. Haven't even started it up yet. Got home from work this afternoon and wife said, "hey the chute for the bagger is coming apart." I looked at the instructions that came with it and there's supposed to be a large rubber band thing with a hook that holds the two pieces of the chute together. There's a post on one chute piece and a hole in the other. No rubber band. Went to dealer (about 3 miles away, fortunately) and he said "it's supposed to be pop-riveted on; did you bring the tube with you?" "No, I'll be back in 20 minutes!" Took the tube in to him and they pop riveted a new rubber band on it.

Came from the factory with no rubber band. Guarantee? No. Warranty? Yes - they put on the rubber band for free.

[Campcation]

I can relate to this on two levels. I bought a 2013 Roo and I work in manufacturing. My Roo had some issues. Nothing major. When they installed my tub surround the put it in crooked. Any chalking just cracks, so I will take that back to fix. Also the sky light was not installed properly. Other than that no major issues. Yes my speaker outside are not as loud as inside but the acoustics are much better inside. The sound is much more dispersed outside.
It sounds easy to hire someone to do quality work, but the people who care that much will not be with you long because they will either be move to a more difficult process or go somewhere that pays better. This is one reason jobs go over seas.
Every company wants to put out a perfect product, but at a certain point you will price yourself out of the market.

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by jbdbsb

Sorry your havin issues. I guess I've been lucky (so far), as I've had no significant issues and no dealler visits with my 233S. I do have issues with some design, execution and build stuations, but that's why I have so many (obvious) mods to mine.

Would love to hear about the mods you've done. I'm all about making it better

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

If the RV manufacturers made a camper to the quality levels that people expect of them, nobody would buy it because it would cost $80k and weigh 2-3000# more. The closesest is Airstream, and they are quite pricey compared to other RVs. Here's a bit of insight for ya. FR (and the others) know exactly how much they spend in warranty claims. They weigh that versus the cost of solving warranty issues and they are running in the most profitable region of that curve. In other words, they could eleminate most of those defects, but the costs involved would be more than the costs of warranty work. They aint dummies. Why spend $3mil fixing an issue that will only cost you $2mil in warranty claims?

People want a lightweight $25k camper with $75k quality. I hate to bust bubbles here, but it aint gonna happen. I had to fix 4 things on my brand new camper. There was plastic shavings blocking the sink spout in the kitchen, the back of the sofa was loose, a fitting on the pump wasn't tight and dribbled a little, and one speaker for the stereo didn't work. It took a lazy afternoon to repair those things.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will spend more time on the internet complaining about poor quality than it would take to just fix it. In life there is trade-offs, and I'm happy to trade lower cost for MINOR quality issues like that.

Of course, if the axles fall off the thing, that's a whole other story...

Tim

Minor issues I can deal with. Some were not minor though. You see my list of minor issues because the number kept rising which is why I wanted to follow up with everyone. The major issues were the caulking which would turn into a very large issue, the leaking of the shower drain which was major due to having to take up the whole tub portion to get underneath and speakers being blow which they needed to order new speakers for. Why didn't they just turn on the radio at the factory? The rest which yes we're easy to do myself were just icing on the cake.

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by JohnF

It's called a warranty not a guarantee......there is a difference. I use to do some plumbing. If I installed a hot water heater for instance, I never guaranteed it to work, I warrantied it. If it didn't work, I repaired or replaced it. As long as they repair the defect they have not gone back on their word.

I actually prefer to make the minor repairs I find on my TT. My work is generally better than theirs, unless of course something needs replaced. My dealer has been good about any problems. That's why I chose them after asking around about their history.

"If you want someone done right you must do it yourself". I totally agree. Some things I believe they should take care of mostly due to cost of the replacement part.

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by mjones12

You make some good points, but the 4 problems you mentioned on your own camper wouldn't have cost a lot for the company to correct on the front end, thereby saving you and other customers from the frustration.

Hiring good workers with good work ethics and training them well on attention to detail.....a company doesn't have to do an expensive re-tool to accomplish that.

Yes. Some of my frustration is that I have to drive the camper back to the service shop which isn't the closest place.

[MuddauberE]

I'm Sure I'll get over all these minor issues. I really do like my trailer and will forget about all the mishaps in the beginning once I get them straightened all out. The trailer is back in the shop to hopefully get the issues completed. Not just the minor ones at this point. Those I will take care of myself. I appreciate all the feedback as I was looking to see if this was something I was over reacting about or if I just got a carelessly made trailer. I want it to last as everyone does . I really do enjoy it And want to continue to enjoy it. Which is why I was so worried about the issues in the beginning. I was just wanting to get the perfect trailer because it was an upgrade to me and my expectations were too high. I will readjust my expectations. Seems like most of everyone else has who has more experience in "new" products that I do. I won't take my expectations down too low though .
Time to start focusing on the fun of having a trailer, applying mods and camping rather than complaining.

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by Changes_In_Latitudes

Well if you find out there is a problem with your outdoor speakers, please repost. I'll be taking mine in then.

Ok. They found when changing the speaker that the outdoor speakers were wired backwards. This caused them to not be very loud. They are better. Still not loud but respectable.

[JohnF]

I think it is a good thing that outdoor speakers are not very loud.

[MuddauberE]

Originally Posted by JohnF

I think it is a good thing that outdoor speakers are not very loud.

I agree. But I'd like to hear them which was not the case. I'm my situation they were not really working at all. They found the issues and fixed it.

[MuddauberE]

I got my trailer back today and they fixed everything in a timely manor too . I'm ready for
Mods.