New hybrid model 23ws

[Drenjoey]

hey Folks,


New on Forest River Forum,
My wife and I are happy to be the new owners of a 23WS. It should arrive next week to Maine from Michigan (can't find any Roo around here). We're anxious to see that thing on my front yard.
Funny how the kitchen counter is the same as our 2011 Palomino stampede S238.(Just sold it)
As for the entertainment center, it doesn't bother us. We mostly watch TV in the morning while sitting at the table.
That shower looks beautiful....and that closet in the rear room will be my first mod....Install shelves in there.
Pictures will be posted when I get it here


Happy to be part of this forum


Dre

[bikendan]

Welcome Dre!
I think you'll like this Forum better than the other one.

Your old 238 was Palomino's copy of the 23SS. That's why the kitchen is so similar.
If it had been around back in 2006 and a Palomino dealer had been anywhere close, we would've probably bought it instead of our 23SS.

[Drenjoey]

I'm happy to be part of this group Dan.
The next few weeks will be exciting for us.
I sold the Palomino with everything .......and now comes the time to do serious shopping starting with a WDH and an ADCO cover, and my wife Joline (who I call Joey) will take care of the interior.

[Mr Havercamp]

We have a 23WS on order.

The added baggage doors and larger bathroom / shower was what sold it. In 2012 the limited outside accessible storage on the 23SS was a deal breaker and we ended up with our current Keystone Passport 235EXP which I have on the market. The 23WS still does not have as much exterior accessible storage but they made it much better. At least enough that we can live with it once I remove, relocate, or rebuild all those cheap baffles they put everywhere which fall apart when you look at them. Simply running wiring and flex ducts and such a little neater would give you tons of additional storage space. Its typical and I'll have a busy spring.

I went and took a good look at a 23WS Shamrock prior to placing the order.

As far as the location of the TV and entertainment center it doesn't bother me, its fairly easy to relocate or add a TV just about anywhere you want one. I see 23SS owners comments about the pantry cabinet, and can understand that. But if you never had it to begin with and never had the time to get used to it, you don't miss things as much. We can sure live without it. Why they did not keep it above the side cab near the door makes me scratch my head? Designers

What we liked in addition to the shower / bathroom, was that even with the slides retracted you can still use / get to everything and even get to the rear bunk if needed. Its a little tight but it could be done. Plenty of other things to like, I forget what they were. We were not really looking for a new one but....................................

What I did not like was the use of caulking and trim. In our current trailer and our previous Aerolite hybrid not much of the wood colored or wallpaper covered trim was used. Everything fit to adjacent surfaces tight and caulking was then applied in very small and clean beads. Really sharp. Our counter top is fitted to the wall and has a 1/16 wide bead of clear silicone that you can hardly see. The Shamrock was caulked with a color that matched nothing, and the gap that was filled was over 1/4". It says "backsplash needed" to me. In the Shamrocks, probably 6 of differnt models, we looked at and pictures I look at online it seems there is no rhyme nor reason to the use of trim and caulk. The cabinet over the dinette has trim, to the right of that the cabinet with / over the fridge has caulk, the cabinet above the range trim. The radio / entertainment cabinet caulk. no consistency. Certainly not a deal breaker as I am a carpenter and mod fanatic. They should hire a couple people though who know how to use a caulk gun. Small cosmetic things like that I am not too concerned about. To this day I still find staples that need sunk and filled in our Passport.

I was impressed with the arrangement and neatness of the underneath and the layout there, the tanks and wiring all looked pretty good from the factory. I'll still do a once over in the spring

My only concern since reading in depth on this forum is the bunk doors. I have been reading recent posts about leaking doors, adding gutters, etc etc etc. Nothings perfect and I am not new to this dance, but I was under the impression that Forest River had worked out any door leak issues based on a few people I know in other forums with newer Roos. I am starting to have 2nd thoughts even though I have placed money down to order the 23WS. I'm sure hoping what I'm reading is the typical forum "the problems get hammered and the good does not get mentioned" syndrome. Other than a split caulk joint on one of the doors on our Aerolite, which was my fault for not noticing, the LCI securelock doors are almost bulletproof when it comes to leaks. Especially the versions since 2010. I sure hope I'm not making a mistake here. Maybe I should just stop reading posts about it? I had a bad aftertaste for a few years after some issues with a Palomino product, but decided I'd give Forest River a go again. My biggest concern is the bunk doors.

Anyway its ordered and I am told it most likely will be into the dealer sometime in December.

[Drenjoey]

Mr Havercamp has a lot to say but that's ok......I enjoyed reading your comment.
We are on our third hybrid, and I still don't see the day I will upgrade. We just love them.
I do agree with you about the way they apply caulking. I loved my previous hybrid which was a Palomino Stampede S-238, but the caulking job was badly done....bunch of amateurs!!
The Roo 23WS we just got is done much better......no complaint., and we simply LOVE IT!
The only problem we have now is wait six months before using it.
here are pics of our new 23WS:

[CNYCamper]

Drenjoey,


FR should hire you to take the brochure photos...nice shots!


Also welcome to the forums. Beautiful camper.

[rockfordroo]

I see they screwed up the furnace cold air return just like in my Micro Lite. WHY didn't they put the cold air return on the table side of the dinette????

I'll be moving mine one of these days.

[Mr Havercamp]

Dre.....nice trailer.....congrats....I agree with CNY that they should get you to take the brochure pictures.

Did you special order from the factory through a Michigan dealer or purchase one they had in stock and have them ship it to you?

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I see they screwed up the furnace cold air return just like in my Micro Lite. WHY didn't they put the cold air return on the table side of the dinette????

I'll be moving mine one of these days.

Why would they want to do that? It makes too much sense.

What is the purpose of the same type of grill panel on the front streetside nightstand cabinet, where I believe the water heater is located? And what are the 2 panels for under the oven? Are they used because they are handy and cheap, or because of equipment in those locations that needs ventilation? I can't figure out what equipment that would be. I am betting on cheap.


Dre.....any chance you could measure the outside box length from front bend to rear without bumper? And what does the bumper protrude. I should of done that before I ordered.

[Drenjoey]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

Dre.....nice trailer.....congrats....I agree with CNY that they should get you to take the brochure pictures.

Did you special order from the factory through a Michigan dealer or purchase one they had in stock and have them ship it to you?

I purchased one they just received at Haylett in Michigan and had it delivered to Maine.....

[Drenjoey]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

Dre.....any chance you could measure the outside box length from front bend to rear without bumper? And what does the bumper protrude. I should of done that before I ordered.

I will measure when I come back from work at 4:00pm.

BTW, there are four of these wood grilled panels in the 23ws. the one at the table is for the return, the one at the front cabinet is the water tank access, and the two below the stove.....I will have to investigate.

There is also that small cabinet beside the stove under the entertainment system that serve not much purpose except for the counter top. there is an access panel in front of it that I opened to find out a bundle of wires and hoses. I'm sure an handyman can possibly install a small drawer or a spice rack in there....the same goes for another panel right next to the stove. I have all winter to come up with ideas.

Dre

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Drenjoey

I purchased one they just received at Haylett in Michigan and had it delivered to Maine.....

I hope they shipped it before the gold chain guy beat it up.

[Drenjoey]

No dents on the cabinet doors or the outside walls....... If there were, I would have made a special trip to Michigan...

[Drenjoey]

I just measured from the bend to the rear without the bumper and it is 21' 4"

[Mr Havercamp]

Dre, what size freshwater tank? According to the 2016 brochure they increased to 43 gallons. That could be a 43 gallon thank or a 37 gallon tank and 6 in the heater. Some of the ones on RV trader have a picture of the weight sticker and calculated out they are still indicating 30 gals.

What does your yellow water capacity sticker say?

[Drenjoey]

The water capacity sticker says......249 lbs maximum.....figure it out !!

I have to say I never fill or use that fresh water tank. We always camp where water and electricity are supplied.
One thing I noticed when I walked around the 23ws is there are no gutters over the bed doors !!!!.....hum !!!

[jking46]

They haven't come with gutters over the bunks for several years. I did have my dealer install a set after hearing of potential problems. So far, no leaks after 2 years.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Drenjoey

The water capacity sticker says......249 lbs maximum.....figure it out !!

249 lbs = 30 Gallons.

So what have we learned?

The 2015 brochure and spec on the Rockwood website says water capacity 36 gallons.

Your sticker says 249 lbs, which is 30 gallons. If the water capacity is 36 gallons then the sticker is incorrect, as 36 gallons would weigh 300 lbs.

Or........the 2015 brochure / website is wrong and the tank is actually 24 gallons, that along with the 6 gallons in the water heater = 249lbs.

The 2016 brochure, which is not even available on the Rockwood website, does say water capacity 43 gallons. No 2016 specs are available on the Rockwood website. That could mean 43 gallon tank and 6 gallons in the water heater or 409 lbs, or 37 gallon tank and 6 gallon water heater which is 360 lbs. Yet your 2016 has a sticker that indicates 30 gallons by weight?

Then we need to consider the verbage on brochure and website.

"All information contained on this website is believed to be accurate at the time of publication. However, during the model year, it may be necessary to make revisions and Forest River, Inc. reserves the right to make changes without notice, including prices, colors, materials, equipment and specifications as well as the addition of new models and the discontinuance of models shown on this website. Therefore, please consult with your Forest River, Inc. dealer and confirm the existence of any material, design or specifications that are material to your purchase decision."

AND

"All specifications contained herein are based on the latest product information at time of printing.
Forest River reserves the right to make changes in colors, materials, equipment and specifications
at any time without notice and assumes no responsibility for any errors in this brochure. "

So what we have learned is..........................NOTHING or close to it.

The only way you will know the actual water capacity of your 2016 would be to either measure it out using water or measure the tank geometry, unless the tank is marked or stamped.

I have no clue what will be in my 2016 Roo which is ordered. I would assume at some point they will be using a larger tank than in a 2015 but who the hell knows? If that's the case they are probably going to use up any stock of the smaller tanks first. I guess I need to pester the hell out of the salesman and dealer about it tomorrow.

This is like going to the Chevy dealer and buying a truck but you're not allowed to know what motor you get until you sign on the line, then you pop the hood and see if you got the 4.3, 5.3, or 6.2 Surprise surprise surprise Sgt Carter !!

Stay tuned.

[rockfordroo]

I suspect that for most of us, unless all you do is boondock, the tank size isn't really going to be a deal breaker.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I suspect that for most of us, unless all you do is boondock, the tank size isn't really going to be a deal breaker.

Possibly. We have many state parks here in PA that the only hook up is electric. The freshwater tank size can be a big deal when you are carrying aquatainers and refilling your tank mid week of a 10 night outing. I have done it many times. During a 10 night trip I will go through typically 70 gallons of fresh and dump the black and gray once each using the blue boy. And that is using the campground provided showers, not the trailer.

I hope they are increasing the tank size as that is the area where most hybrids have been lacking. On my current trailer, Keystone in their ultimate cheapness put a 24 gallon tank in, and advertised it as 30. You can not use the 6 gallons in the heater they included in that 30 without making note of it anywhere. I added another 20 gallon auxiliary tank. Aerolite (Dutchmen) has had it right for years, they have 52 gallon freshwater tanks. Jayco / Starcraft had some ridiculously low freshwater capacities on their hybrids but at least they disclosed that the unusable 6 gallons in the heater was part of the capacity . They recently started using larger tanks.

They build these with tanks so they are self contained. They install a 30 gallon black tank, and a 30 gallon gray tank. They should install at least a 50 gallon freshwater tank.