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Old 08-12-2018, 03:43 PM   #1
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Solar panel Q's

Hey all

What is required for me to install a small 50-100w panel on my 21SS?

Id like to have a small panel I can place in a sunny spot to keep the battery charged when boondocking.

I see the ZAmp connectors. I know that the only difference between ISO standard and ZAamp is that pos/neg connections are reversed, and that if I simply swap the connections I can use any cheap solar panel.

I have read that I need a "charge controller".

Where would this go?
Where does the ZAmp wire connect to?

Essentially I would be connecting to the battery correct?

Why wouldn't I just have my panel and charge controller wired to alligator clips and connect directly to the battery leads?

Is there any benefit to using the port on the side of the camper?
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:16 PM   #2
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I'll let the solar experts give more advice but I do know that you'll need more wattage.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:49 PM   #3
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people might not realize it, because of all the solar jargon floating around, but it's safe to say that a single panel is not going to do any justice to your batteries, not under normal off-grid usage, anyway. It's simply not enough 'juice' to warrant the massive expense for the incoming wattage, as compared to a simple 30 minutes of generator charging for the same amps.
I started to realize that Solar is slight overblown, as for what RVrs could expect, and see it as either mostly for 'fixed based' houses and homes, or those who can afford a really big 1,000w or more system deployed on the their roof, with large inverters, and larger battery banks than most of us have access to or room for.

We complain about the $3 per gallon cost of fuel, but hurry out and spend $300 or more on a 'solar' solution that makes us 'feel' like we've accomplished a lot of savings, but the opposite is probably the case. That's a hundred gallons of fuel, and probably 600-800 hours of generator usage, cost compared. Wow, I know few folks who have that many hours on their generator, and their RV is 10 years old! Think about it.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:02 PM   #4
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people might not realize it, because of all the solar jargon floating around, but it's safe to say that a single panel is not going to do any justice to your batteries, not under normal off-grid usage, anyway. It's simply not enough 'juice' to warrant the massive expense for the incoming wattage, as compared to a simple 30 minutes of generator charging for the same amps.
I started to realize that Solar is slight overblown, as for what RVrs could expect, and see it as either mostly for 'fixed based' houses and homes, or those who can afford a really big 1,000w or more system deployed on the their roof, with large inverters, and larger battery banks than most of us have access to or room for.

We complain about the $3 per gallon cost of fuel, but hurry out and spend $300 or more on a 'solar' solution that makes us 'feel' like we've accomplished a lot of savings, but the opposite is probably the case. That's a hundred gallons of fuel, and probably 600-800 hours of generator usage, cost compared. Wow, I know few folks who have that many hours on their generator, and their RV is 10 years old! Think about it.
This is certainly a good point.

I might start by using the gen to charge up the battery as needed and go from there.

I would just like to avoid using the gen when possible due to noise.

Granted I have an EU2000i and it is quiet enough to not even notice.

I realize that 100w wouldn't fully replenish the battery, but I figured that when used continuously over a 4 day trip, it might keep the battery from being fully discharged.

Thanks for the advice
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:24 PM   #5
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let me amend my calc: 200-300 hrs of gen usage

to your point, though, Solar is the VERY power source that CAN’T help you during the overnight - no sun, no solar - a generator is much more suited for that.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:47 PM   #6
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At night I run the lights, fridge, water pump, water heater, furnace for heat (even in summer), entertainment system. My 200W of solar generates 11 amps and charges my two 12v batteries back to full by mid-day the next day. I still get 4 to 5 amps of charge in cloudy weather. I camp at high altitudes and do not use the air conditioner; anything I can heat up in the microwave I can heat up on the stove.

I do own a Honda 2000i generator that I have yet to use.

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Old 08-12-2018, 06:03 PM   #7
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Not trying to start a gen/vs solar argument. Unless you go with huge solar and batteries, you will have an extremely bad time with air conditioning.

That said, scour craigslist or offer up for deals on solar. Bought mine on the cheap. Running dual 6 volt golf cart batteries, but am looking to source some used hybrid car lithiums in the future.

Got 2 commercial grade solar panels free. Needed new terminations soldered on. Bought a Morningstar MPPT controller and Samlex inverter from C/L. A contractor gifted me some used conduit. Set it up on my 5th wheel camper. Have yet to use the generator since the install. Just back from an 8 week trip. Batteries were charged every day before 10am. This is with microwave use, heater, vent fans, tv, etc. as needed during evening and night time use. Of course, as I use electricity during the day, the panels recharge the batteries or supply the needs as used.

There were a few nights I wished I had a large enough generator to run the ar conditioning, but those days, we got a campground with electric. My genset is only 2k, and I need a 3.1 or 3.5k to run the air, or an easy start kit. Either will cost me 300-1,100.

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Old 08-12-2018, 06:29 PM   #8
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let me amend my calc: 200-300 hrs of gen usage

to your point, though, Solar is the VERY power source that CAN’T help you during the overnight - no sun, no solar - a generator is much more suited for that.
I'm ok using propane for heat and fridge duties.

Overnight if I want AC I'd obviously have to run the gen, but if I just need some airflow, the rood fans will work for that.

During the day, we will be out and about, so not much power usage there other than whatever standby usage misc items use
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:32 PM   #9
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I spent $1600 (a lot, but compared to overall rv-ing costs....not crazy). IMO, I got a pretty premo system.

600w of solar, mppt Bluetooth controller, and full sine 3k inverter with control panel and transfer switch.

Of course there's way better and bigger out there. 300w of solar and a pwm controller can be had for a very economical price though. The inverter really isn't solar, per se.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:07 PM   #10
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This is pretty close to what I used. Install it and forget about it. Batteries stay charged all the time. It will last a decade if you install it correctly. I should have put this link in my post above.

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr...06305481&psc=1

Good luck!
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:25 PM   #11
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By the way, most feel the Zamp system is WAY overpriced for what you get.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:30 PM   #12
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....and I agree with Dan about Zamp!

I am all into mine a lot more frugally. I was able to source a lot of my stuff discounted, by scrapping from an electrical contractor, or buying used. By using the high voltage (48v) panels and MPPT controller, I used just 2 panels, with room for 4 more if needed. So far I do not see the need. I have seen a high of 45 amps at charging voltage. Low of 4 amps, under my shade structure on a cloudy day.

It can be done on the cheap, if you have a shopping list of what you want/need, willing to wait and get the pieces as they come available. My Morningstar controller goes for 600. I got it used from Crooks List for 145. Used for less than a year. Seller showed me it was working. The inverter, 1200. Thru a series of trades, 150. Wire, boxes, conduit, free. The Trimetric battery monitor, 99. Was an open box buy from one of the solar companies near me. The Costco Trojan battery clones, bought 89.00 each. Had to replace the crummy 12 volt "deep cycle" battery that came with my unit anyway. I plan to source a used lithium pack from a hybrid car, still in the planning stages for that. About 400.00, minus the 2 batteries. 580 if you factor them in.

Part Two of my plan, is to get the lithium pack, replace the Samlex with one of the newer style boosting inverters that allows for running with batteries and Ac (genset or limited shore power) to boost total output to run my air conditioning. I am shooting for 6 hours of running the air on a limited basis without the generator. With that style of boosting inverter, and able to combine with the battery pack, I could easily run the air with the small genset all day and night, as long as I feed it gas. But, we will see. I try not to camp where I have to have the air on anyway!
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:44 PM   #13
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This is pretty close to what I used. Install it and forget about it. Batteries stay charged all the time. It will last a decade if you install it correctly. I should have put this link in my post above.

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr...06305481&psc=1

Good luck!
Wow, that's a pretty hard kit to beat... Brackets and everything.
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:03 PM   #14
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... What is required for me to install a small 50-100w panel on my 21SS? ... ... ...
Hi GordonB. The simple answer: you need solar panel, charge controller, and wire to battery, basically as you already determined. The panel is wired to the controller; the controller is wired to the battery. If using a portable panel, then the controller should probably be mounted near the panels. The port on the side of your Mobile Palace should already connect directly to the battery, thus providing a simple/convenient method for connecting the controller to the battery. Of course, as you already noted, be sure polarity is correct. Certainly, if more convenient, alligator clips could also secure the battery connections – this is simply a personal preference/convenience issue. Additionally, it is probably wise to include a fuse between the controller and the battery. The side-port wiring probably already has this fuse installed.
Discussions of panel size, number of panels, installation, type of controller, and size of wires complicate the topic a bit more – usually much more than necessary. Most projects can be greatly simplified by purchasing an RV solar system kit for the type of installation you wish, whether it be portable or mounted. These kits usually contain everything needed to complete the installation project, including frames, mounting brackets, controller, wires, and connectors. As you already noticed, there are many opinions on these topics. But the fact remains that, within a given applications, most of the various systems are very similar … except for price. Determine your wants/needs, search for a comfortable price, and read all of the product reviews, especially the negative comments.
A solar panel system is not designed to supply all of the coach's electrical system. A generator or shore power is still needed for operating an air conditioner or microwave oven. Entertainment systems also usually need an outside power source, but 12-volt and inverter powered systems do exist. The solar panel and controller are designed to provide energy for battery charging. When battery energy provides most of your electrical needs it becomes necessary to regularly restore the battery's depleted energy. A solar charging system is usually in parallel with other already installed charging systems and should maintain system batteries during times when those other systems are shut down or unavailable, such as while boondocking.
The most important decision you need to make regards your average daily battery recharge demand. That is, the amount of energy you consume during a 24-hour period is the amount of energy you need to replace while sun is shining on the solar panel. There are a few, off-hand, estimates that might generalize this, for example: a 50-watt panel will likely maintain a one- or two-battery system health while your Mobile Palace is in storage. Simply leaving the battery-disconnect switch on, with nothing else, could easily increase your daily consumption to 300 watts because of the load for things like CO and propane gas detectors (estimate roughly based on a 1-ampere quiescent drain, or AV x 24 hours = 1x12x24 = 288 watts). Given 6-hours of direct-panel sunshine, then a 50-watt panel might meet this demand (6X50 = 300). However, panel wattage requirements increase as your daily consumption increases. Simply adding the gas refrigerator and water heater electronics can easily increase the quiescent battery drain to 600 watts per day. A 100-watt solar panel might meet this demand, assuming 6-hours of direct-panel sunshine (no clouds or other shade), then a 100-watt panel replenishes the power consumed (6X100 = 600). Using illumination during the evening and early morning, running the water pump during a shower or by flushing the toilet, the electronic controller for a gas refrigerator or water heater, all begin to increase energy consumption. Energy consumption ramps up quickly when a coach heater circulation fan, or an entertainment system is added. Perhaps, this rough description explains why most people consider a 50 to 100-watt solar system as a kind of minimal system.
The point here is that your system size is really dependent on your comfort zone and life-style preferences. Most folks very much enjoy their Mobile Palace without solar supplemental energy, others are very pleased with a small system. The off-grid reality, however, is usually a compromise between real estate (what you have room for), pocketbook (what you can afford), and life-style adjustment (what you're comfortable with).
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:36 AM   #15
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FWIW - I just returned from a week of camping in a provincial park non-electrical site. I have a 100w Coleman panel that I bought from Costco for $250 CDN. It comes with a 10' cord and clips on to the battery posts - easy peasy.

It worked fine and kept my group 31 battery charged, but, we did have sun every day. It only dropped once to 11.5 V, otherwise steady at 12-12.5V.

If I was doing more non-electrical camping I would likely get a second battery.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:34 PM   #16
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FWIW - I just returned from a week of camping in a provincial park non-electrical site. I have a 100w Coleman panel that I bought from Costco for $250 CDN. It comes with a 10' cord and clips on to the battery posts - easy peasy.

It worked fine and kept my group 31 battery charged, but, we did have sun every day. It only dropped once to 11.5 V, otherwise steady at 12-12.5V.

If I was doing more non-electrical camping I would likely get a second battery.
Just so you know the state of charge (estimated) for a flooded battery at 12.2 v is 50% (12.4 is 75%). For battery health and longevity it is recommended not to go below 50% charge.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:46 AM   #17
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Hey all

What is required for me to install a small 50-100w panel on my 21SS?

Id like to have a small panel I can place in a sunny spot to keep the battery charged when boondocking.

I see the ZAmp connectors. I know that the only difference between ISO standard and ZAamp is that pos/neg connections are reversed, and that if I simply swap the connections I can use any cheap solar panel.

I have read that I need a "charge controller".

Where would this go?
Where does the ZAmp wire connect to?

Essentially I would be connecting to the battery correct?

Why wouldn't I just have my panel and charge controller wired to alligator clips and connect directly to the battery leads?

Is there any benefit to using the port on the side of the camper?

If boondocking/dry camping is your main type of camping I would recommend 2 batteries. Don't do it with the group 24 that the dealer puts on campers. 2 true deep cycle 6 volt batteries is an excellent route to go.

By all means use solar if you want. You don't need to be quick to jump to generators. From my experience I would recommend at least 200 watts of portable solar. I bought the 200 watt Zamp portable system. Yes, way, way overpriced but at the time I was looking into either a generator or solar, I only had about a week to buy and no time put things together. I needed something that would work straight out of the box and they do. Plug into the port and I am charging. If I had more time to put parts together, solar panels, controller, etc. I would have gone cheaper.

The advantages of portable is that you can place the panels in the sun and keep them pointed directly towards the sun for maximum efficiency. Can't do this with roof mounded units.

With 2 batteries, if you have a cloudy day, you should still have enough power to get through the day. We have no problem with this. We have no problems boondocking and using power as we want. We run the stereo, lights, water pump, some furnace overnight, and charge 12 electronics with no problem. I am not going to sit in a dark camper using a flashlight because I am trying to save battery.

I am not going to knock generators. If that is what people want to do, that is fine but solar is also a fine choice. My only thought is that 50 watts isn't enough and I don't think 100 would be either. My 200 watt system gets my 2 6 volt batteries pretty much charged up each day, but that is after and entire day of charging, but, where we camp, we are usually in trees and we only get good sun when it is overhead during the middle hours of the day.
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #18
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:58 AM   #19
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The only solar on my trailer are sealed gel cell batteries designed for use in solar power systems. They are not cheap but they are designed to be drained well below 50% if not 25% without damage, they don't off gas and the can be mounted in any position buy upside down. We like to camp in the shade so a couple a grand in solar panels to equal my 1000 watt generator doesn't really seem practical to me however 2 hours a day of generator time has no problems keeping them charged up
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:31 PM   #20
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We use 300watts of solar panels and a PWM controller, as stated before a 100watts is not enough power for any rig other than a pop-up. I used 3-100watt Poly Renoligy panels, they work better in partial shade, still produce some power on cloudy days. Mounting panels that can tilt will give 35% better efficiency. Batteries are the heart of our storage, we started with 100ah but it was not enough storage to save power for rainy or cloudy days. Added another battery and a small 350watt pure sine invertor for TV, small vaccum and chargers. 200watts of solar panels worked well when we were limited our useage to essentials. A furnace is very power hungry and can deplete a storage bank. We camped 28 days in mountains recently without a generator or hookup, ran furnace some days in the morning. Watched less TV, the key to making solar work is being Watt-Minded. 3 panels- $347, 30amp pwm controller- $25, invertor- $59, all of this came from Amazon, Batteries $257, wiring and DYI mounts- $110 Total approx $ 805, this can done in stages, plan ahead.
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