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Old 09-04-2012, 02:28 PM   #1
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Question (Solved) A/C Electrical problems - after flawless boondocking maiden voyage!

WooHoo! Our maiden voyage (boondocked) complete in the new 21SS! After our experience with our Coleman popup, I had girded myself for a weekend of McGyver-ing fixes to various plumbing, propane, and electrical systems, but was pleasantly surprised that we had NO problems (including no leaks after a couple decent soakers).

When we returned home, though, we decided to hook up to shore power to make sure all was right before a trip to a full-service campground that is planned for two weeks from now. This is where my issues begin.

First, we parked the Roo just a bit too far from our outdoor plug, so we had to use a (medium duty) extension cord to get things to reach. Second, we plugged into a GFCI outlet -- which of course I didn’t realize would be a problem until there actually WAS a problem and then I read all about it on these forums. :-) After we tripped our outside GFCI outlet, we ran the extension cord into the house to a non-GFI circuit....but no power to the camper! By this time, it was getting dark, and the call of my neighbor’s homemade eggplant parm was too great for me to continue troubleshooting.

But, alas, my mind couldn’t stop working, so after dinner and a not-so-restful nights’ sleep, I got back on these forums and did some additional research which led me to try the following:

1. Checked all breakers in camper -- good to go
2. Rooted around inside the camper looking for GFCI outlets, found one in the bathroom -- it had tripped, and would not reset (troublesome, but shouldn’t affect the ability to get power to the microwave display, should it? Are they on the same chain of outlets?)
2. Flipped all the breakers in camper off, hooked up to the outdoor GFCI outlet again (after reading about this process on the forums) -- the outdoor GFCI outlet tripped immediately even with all the camper breakers thrown off (so presumably no draw from the camper)!

My gut tells me that something shook loose once we left the dealership a couple of weeks ago that is causing a total A/C electrical failure (the 12V stuff still works just fine). And before I commit to hauling this thing off to our dealer (90 minutes away), I am looking for suggestions on what to try next in this troubleshooting odyssey.

First on the list is verifying that the inside outlet we have access to is on a 20A minimum circuit to give ourselves a bit of a buffer. We’ll still need an extension cord from the camper 30A cord, but....

Does anyone have any other suggestions? I have scoured the forums, and tried some of the proposals that have solved others’ similar problems, to no avail.

***Oh! And I should mention that we had the dealer hardwire install a 30A surge protector. Is that my problem trying to work off of 15A service?***

(BTW, we do have a DVM....and if some of your suggestions include using it to check out various connections, please be sure to give detailed instructions. While I was a physics minor, I took that undergraduate electronics class at least 20+ years ago!)

Many thanks in advance!

MaryBeth
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:35 PM   #2
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First of all you need to replace gfci in camper. Then verify 110v inside camper. "Outlet plugs"
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:44 PM   #3
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I have heard that if the water heater element is shorting out, that it will throw the supply GFI breaker even if the water heater is off. I don't know how that happens, but I read it somewhere. You might try taking the leads off of the water heater element (be sure the camper is not plugged into your house, and the leads are free of anything metal ), and then plug back into the house GFI receptacle, and see if that at least keeps that house GFI from tripping.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:45 PM   #4
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***Oh! And I should mention that we had the dealer hardwire install a 30A surge protector. Is that my problem trying to work off of 15A service?***



MaryBeth
Mary Beth, do you know what kind of surge protector you have, and if it has a low voltage shutdown....which could be since you are using an extension cord (which wire gauge and length are unknown to us). You will have a voltage drop that depends on how long and the wire size of your extension cord.

Also have you verified the outlet (non gfci) your are plugging into works?

What kind of adaptor are you using to plug into your campers 30 amp cord, then into the extension cord?
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #5
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Also if your going to go through the trouble of adding a 20 amp outlet you should just make It 30 amp and be done.

Very very few homes have a 20 amp outlet just because.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:23 PM   #6
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Try just plugging in the extension cord to the house GFCI. The cord could have a short in it. I would also check the serge protector that the dealer in stalled. It is hardwired in and the might have attached the ground improperly.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:33 PM   #7
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First GFI's wont reset unless there is power on the inlet side. If the GFI in the house is tripping and you cannot get power to the trailer, your problem is most likely in the plug to surge protector circuit.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:40 PM   #8
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Also if your going to go through the trouble of adding a 20 amp outlet you should just make It 30 amp and be done.

Very very few homes have a 20 amp outlet just because.
We won't be adding any outlets (yet)...I'm just planning on looking at our panel to see if we happen to have any already. Unlikely, I know....
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #9
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First of all you need to replace gfci in camper. Then verify 110v inside camper. "Outlet plugs"
That's also on the list...though the master electrician at our local Home Despot suggested that we simply bypass this to see if it could indeed be one of the problems.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #10
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Try just plugging in the extension cord to the house GFCI. The cord could have a short in it. I would also check the serge protector that the dealer in stalled. It is hardwired in and the might have attached the ground improperly.
I did verify that the cord is working properly -- it is one that lights up on both ends when it has power. The outside GFCI outlet works just fine, too.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:51 PM   #11
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Mary Beth, do you know what kind of surge protector you have, and if it has a low voltage shutdown....which could be since you are using an extension cord (which wire gauge and length are unknown to us). You will have a voltage drop that depends on how long and the wire size of your extension cord.The surge protector is a SurgeGuard -- I think it is the 30A 34520. Supposed to cut out at <102V. I am not sure of the gauge of the extension cord -- but we are planning to move the camper closer to the outlet to eliminate that variable.


Also have you verified the outlet (non gfci) your are plugging into works? Good point! I can't remember if the extension cord "lit up" to indicate power when I plugged it into the non gfci. I'll check tonight

What kind of adaptor are you using to plug into your campers 30 amp cord, then into the extension cord? I think I am using the one that came with the TT (unknown brand), but I have a second conntek adapter that I will try tonight.
Thanks!

MaryBeth
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #12
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I have heard that if the water heater element is shorting out, that it will throw the supply GFI breaker even if the water heater is off. I don't know how that happens, but I read it somewhere. You might try taking the leads off of the water heater element (be sure the camper is not plugged into your house, and the leads are free of anything metal ), and then plug back into the house GFI receptacle, and see if that at least keeps that house GFI from tripping.
I hadn't heard that before. But the GFI tripped even with the water heater breaker switch off. Shouldn't that mimic removing the leads from the WH?

mb
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:56 PM   #13
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Try just plugging in the extension cord to the house GFCI. The cord could have a short in it. I would also check the serge protector that the dealer in stalled. It is hardwired in and the might have attached the ground improperly.
Oh...I will also check the surge protector wiring, but all of the AC electrical worked just fine when parked on the dealer lot. But then, they likely weren't plugged into a GFCI outlet source. I can't wrap my brain around why that would matter right now, but it could if it is related to improper grounding?

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Old 09-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #14
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MB, you can pick up an outlet tester (pic attached) for around $5, which is a good thing to have anyway if you don't already in your camper toolbox...and can be used to test campground pedestals (that's another forum topic). You can grab them at any hardware place, wally world, etc.

It'll light up, and show you if everything is wired correct (or faulty) in the outlet at your house....especially reverse polarity. This way you can see if the outlet at your house is hot without having to plug anything else in it.

They make a different one to test gfci outlets.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:51 PM   #15
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Mary Beth, do you know what kind of surge protector you have, and if it has a low voltage shutdown....which could be since you are using an extension cord (which wire gauge and length are unknown to us). You will have a voltage drop that depends on how long and the wire size of your extension cord.

Also have you verified the outlet (non gfci) your are plugging into works?

What kind of adaptor are you using to plug into your campers 30 amp cord, then into the extension cord?
DING DING DING. A winner.
Your power warden is telling you your extension cord is a "No Go."
Move the camper and you will most likely solve your problem.
If the voltage drop at the surge suppressor is less than the cut off voltage it will prevent you from hooking up to the camper to prevent damage to your converter and other devices.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:01 PM   #16
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I'll check as soon as DH gets home with the TV!

Meanwhile, do you think the "un-re-settable" GFCI outlet in the rig's bathroom is related, or is that simply an unfortunate coincidence? At least we can take care of replacing that without having to haul to the dealer....

Thanks....and I'll let you know i
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:10 PM   #17
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Well, shoot.

We pulled the camper closer to the GFCI outlet so we could connect without an extension cord, and we still tripped the house GFCI outlet with all the camper breakers switched off.

I measured the voltage at the camper end of our 30A cord, and it reads 122V, so there is no low or high voltage issue happening.

It is too dark now to do much more...I was operating the volt meter by head lamp as it was.

More suggestions? Tempted to haul it to a local service shop (2 miles away vs. 80 miles to the dealer) to see if this problem still happens with their 30A source.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:20 PM   #18
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At least low power has been eliminated.

Now we need to find out what is causing your GFCI to trip.

FIRST: Is the GFCI we are talking about in the camper or in the house?

You can't plug a GFCI protected circuit into another GFCI. It will make both unreliable. Is the circuit you are plugging into a GFCI (it could be upstream or it could be a GFCI BREAKER in the CB panel itself.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:37 PM   #19
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At least low power has been eliminated.

Now we need to find out what is causing your GFCI to trip.

FIRST: Is the GFCI we are talking about in the camper or in the house?

You can't plug a GFCI protected circuit into another GFCI. It will make both unreliable. Is the circuit you are plugging into a GFCI (it could be upstream or it could be a GFCI BREAKER in the CB panel itself.
Lou, The only outside house circuit I can access without an extension cord is a GFCI circuit. I was sure to throw the camper's GFCI breaker to 'off' before plugging the shore cord into the camper, since I had read that this could be a problem. In fact, I threw all the breakers in the camper just to be sure that there would not be any weird draw from the camper that would blow the house GFCI. Are all the circuits in the camper GFCI?

For grins and giggles, I'll go off and check the voltage at the shore plug while plugged through an extension cord into the non-GFCI outlet inside the house....

Thanks!

mb
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #20
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More data!

Interestingly, the inside-the-house non-GFCI (as far as I know) outlet WITH the extension cord still reads 123V at the camper end of the 30A cord. So, not lossy. I also checked the outlet with a tester, and it all checks out as "correct" as far s polarity goes.

Should I go ahead and try to plug the cord into the camper with the breakers off? I admit, I'm getting a bit gun-shy now! ;-)

Time to go sing some good-night songs to the kidlet...

MaryBeth
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