What's Your 233S's Loaded Tongue Weight?

[bradacc]

2018 Roo 233S with 40 gallons of water in the fresh tank, 2nd battery, and 2 propane tanks, sitting level with the tongue jack on a scale read 964 lbs. That seems ridiculously high to me so I'm wondering what everyone else is at.


Listed Unloaded Weight - 4842
Listed Hitch Weight - 612

[andymil]

That does seem high. Our 2703WS tongue weight was between 950 and 1000#. Unloaded tt weight was about 6500#.

[Mchurch52]

Our Flagstaff 29KSWS loaded for camping weighs right at 7500# (we usually don’t travel with water in the tanks), TW is 980.

[jking46]

Where is your water tank? Water is about 8 lbs per gallon, I think. Thats over 300lbs. If your tank is in front of your axles, most is going on the tongue.

[babock]

Originally Posted by jking46

Where is your water tank? Water is about 8 lbs per gallon, I think. Thats over 300lbs. If your tank is in front of your axles, most is going on the tongue.

If the tank is halfway between the axle and the tongue, only half would be on the tongue.

Depends on how forward the tank is.

[babock]

The TW spec is with no batteries and no propane. It's a worthless spec.

[Wobbles]

My first rv was a TT that had a dry tongue weight if 407lbs. I thought I was conservative with what I carry. My actual tongue weight was 870lbs. If you add the hitch weight that would put me over the 1K hitch i was told to buy. I went for the 1.2K hitch anyway. Go big... (yes i have a tongue scale)

I figure that two propane tanks and a battery alone will add 100lbs+ and never considered traveling with a full tank of fresh water....

This is an optics kind of topic. How you see tongue weight is subjective, scale it...

[Forellan]

2018 Roo 23IKSS with two batteries, both propane tanks full fresh water ~1/3 full black tank empty my tongue weight came in at 870 lbs. Note that my fresh water and black tank is to the rear of the axles.

[rlh1957]

Sure you don't have too much of personal added cargo weight toward the front of your 233? Balance some of the load out and see where it lands, as long as overall weight is below weight including payload.

[bradacc]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

Sure you don't have too much of personal added cargo weight toward the front of your 233? Balance some of the load out and see where it lands, as long as overall weight is below weight including payload.

Aside from some sleeping bags just what is in the original post is what was in it.

[rlh1957]

Sorry, mind in gear, ears on silent. If your water tank has 40 gallons in it and it is forward of the axles that would add over 300 lbs to GVW as well as add to the 600# dry tongue weight. Not sure if they account for batteries and full LP tanks in their spec weights.
With that much tongue weight it sure limits putting in the groceries, drinks, etc.

[clarkbre]

Here's a breakdown of weights:

Dual, 20 pound propane tanks (tare weight of each tank is 17lbs)= 74 pounds
Dual, 12v Group 24 or 6v Golf cart batteries = 92 to 124 pounds

Thats about 200 pounds within 5 feet of the coupler on the ball.

Gear in the exterior storage of the trailer = about 75 pounds (this is likely a very conservative number)

Say half of that is carried by the tongue = 200+37

Then, 40 gallons of water between the axles and tongue = 40*8.34 = 333.6

Let's say the tongue carries 40% of that weight = 133 + 237 = 400 pounds.

So, the tongue is likely carrying about an extra 400 pounds that the manufacturer doesn't say. Also, the dry tongue weight could easily be more than listed. Add about 5% for that and you're looking at (612+5%)+(400)= 1042 pounds

Also, if you take the listed dry weight of the trailer + cargo carrying capacity it adds up to about 6600 pounds. 6600 x 15% tongue weight = a potential tongue weight of 990.

In reality, your 964 laden tongue weight seems about right on.

[bradacc]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Here's a breakdown of weights:
.....
So, the tongue is likely carrying about an extra 400 pounds that the manufacturer doesn't say.
.....
In reality, your 964 laden tongue weight seems about right on.

Thanks for the breakdown clarkbre. I guess my first error was assuming that the 612lb hitch spec was including the 2 propane bottles and 1 of the batteries. Second error was figuring the water being directly in front of the axle would transfer way less to the tongue.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Here's a breakdown of weights:

Dual, 20 pound propane tanks (tare weight of each tank is 17lbs)= 74 pounds
Dual, 12v Group 24 or 6v Golf cart batteries = 92 to 124 pounds

Thats about 200 pounds within 5 feet of the coupler on the ball.

Gear in the exterior storage of the trailer = about 75 pounds (this is likely a very conservative number)

Say half of that is carried by the tongue = 200+37

Then, 40 gallons of water between the axles and tongue = 40*8.34 = 333.6

Let's say the tongue carries 40% of that weight = 133 + 237 = 400 pounds.

So, the tongue is likely carrying about an extra 400 pounds that the manufacturer doesn't say. Also, the dry tongue weight could easily be more than listed. Add about 5% for that and you're looking at (612+5%)+(400)= 1042 pounds

Also, if you take the listed dry weight of the trailer + cargo carrying capacity it adds up to about 6600 pounds. 6600 x 15% tongue weight = a potential tongue weight of 990.

In reality, your 964 laden tongue weight seems about right on.

Originally Posted by bradacc

Thanks for the breakdown clarkbre. I guess my first error was assuming that the 612lb hitch spec was including the 2 propane bottles and 1 of the batteries. Second error was figuring the water being directly in front of the axle would transfer way less to the tongue.

The 74 lbs for the propane should already have been included.

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)*
The typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s), including full fuel, all fluids and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.

*Estimated Average based on standard build optional equipment.

RV Glossary by Forest River RV

[bikendan]

Yep, it changed a few years ago to include the propane weight, since it's a standard amount.

[Theo]

This info is terrific! We are shopping and this is helping us get a handle on the weight details.

So, if I'm understanding the standards correctly, the UVW Weight does not include: cargo, fresh water, options/accessories. The actual Dry Weight is the UVW adjusted for the manufacturer's installed options/accessories. The CCC already takes into account the weight of the fresh water (including 6-gal hot water tank), so what's remaining is just the amount of cargo one can load + the weight of any waste tank contents.

Have I got that right?

[hack522]

I only put fresh water in when traveling less or about an hour away. Prefer filling once at campground.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Theo

This info is terrific! We are shopping and this is helping us get a handle on the weight details.

So, if I'm understanding the standards correctly, the UVW Weight does not include: cargo, fresh water, options/accessories. The actual Dry Weight is the UVW adjusted for the manufacturer's installed options/accessories. The CCC already takes into account the weight of the fresh water (including 6-gal hot water tank), so what's remaining is just the amount of cargo one can load + the weight of any waste tank contents.

Have I got that right?

When I bought my Mini Lite in 2015, the brochure quoted "Base/Dry Unit Weight," which the brochure defined as:

The Base/Dry Unit Weight listed represents the weight of one trailer with that model’s standard equipment including specified Convenience Package content. The actual weight of a trailer with its specific option content is documented on the yellow weight tag attached to the unit when weighed upon completion. This weight is provided for use in comparison to the manufacturer’s published towing capacity of potential tow vehicles. Be aware that many brands choose to show unloaded weights that do not include options.

Sometime in the last couple of years they have dropped the "dry weight" term and are now using Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW). The current Mini Lite brochure on the FR website quotes UVW as follows:

Unloaded Vehicle Weight*

The Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW) listed represents the weight of one trailer with that model’s standard equipment including the content of specified option packages.
* See back cover for further specification definitions.

The back cover says:

Specification Definitions

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) – is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) – is the maximum permissible weight, including cargo, fluids, optional equipment and accessories that can be safely supported by a combination of all axles.

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* - is the typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s) and tongue or pin and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.
*Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment.

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)** - is the amount of weight available for fresh potable water, cargo, additional optional equipment and accessories. CCC is equal to GVWR minus UVW. Available CCC should accommodate fresh potable water (8.3 lbs per gallon). Before filling the fresh water tank, empty the black and gray tanks to provide for more cargo capacity.
**Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment.

Each Forest River RV is weighed at the manufacturing facility prior to shipping. A label identifying the unloaded vehicle weight of the actual unit and the cargo carrying capacity is applied to every Forest River RV prior to leaving our facilities.

The load capacity of your unit is designated by weight, not by volume, so you cannot necessarily use all available space when loading your unit.

So for all intents and purposes, Dry Weight is UVW. But dealers still use the dry weight term on the signs they use at RV shows.

With respect to deciding if your tow vehicle (TV) is adequate, ignore dry weight/UVW. It's really just a marketing ploy by the manufacturers/dealers. The real number you should be thinking about is GVWR. Make sure your TV can pull the GVWR, and more importantly, make sure the TV's payload capacity is adequate to handle about 15% of the GVWR (i.e., the probable actual tongue weight you might have) PLUS whatever else you put in the TV (wife, kids, dog, stuff.) You can find the payload capacity on a sticker on your drivers door frame. Note that most TV's run out of payload before they ever run out of towing capacity.

[rlh1957]

Originally Posted by Theo

This info is terrific! We are shopping and this is helping us get a handle on the weight details.

So, if I'm understanding the standards correctly, the UVW Weight does not include: cargo, fresh water, options/accessories. The actual Dry Weight is the UVW adjusted for the manufacturer's installed options/accessories. The CCC already takes into account the weight of the fresh water (including 6-gal hot water tank), so what's remaining is just the amount of cargo one can load + the weight of any waste tank contents.

Have I got that right?

You are on it!

Many people get confused because of all the different weights and max weights. Max for trailer and Max for trailer axle, and max for tires are different, but none should be exceeded. You could exceed one while another may still not be at max.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

...{snip}You can find the payload capacity on a sticker on your drivers door frame. Note that most TV's run out of payload before they ever run out of towing capacity.

Couldn't agree more!

The TT we are contemplating has a GVWR of slightly less than 6,900#. The TV I will be looking at has a payload of ~2,000#. Once you factor-in the TT tongue weight, actual hitch weight, weight of passengers/dogs and cargo, that 2,000# payload is reduced pretty quickly to about 400# of available load. However, that same TV has a GCVWR of 16,000# and a towing capacity of 10,700#.

I feel safe when I plan my weights using the TT's GVWR, 15% of the TT GVWR for a tongue weight, and the TV's payload rating minus cargo. Ideally, for me, the remaining available payload is around 1/4 of the payload rating. I am trying to be a cautious newbie so YMMV.