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02-25-2011, 12:39 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 149
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I pull the same camper with an 04 dodge 1/2 ton, hemi, 3.92 rear end, off road package, and I have E load range tires. I am rated to tow 8500 so I am overloaded. All trucks are underrated. I have to install air bags but other than that the truck pulls the camper just fine. I would not want to go through big hills though.
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02-25-2011, 12:50 PM
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#22
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 16
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mstell, When you say E load range tires do you mean on your Truck or on your 5er? I wasn't planning on changing my tires.
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02-25-2011, 01:00 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 149
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On my truck, I have firestone destination mt lt285/70r17.
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02-25-2011, 04:11 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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I'll give you credit, it's a gutsy move going with the 3.5 liter V6 Ecoboost with a 3.31 rear end when you plan on towing over 8000 pounds. Starting from an uphill red light you're going to need all 420 pounds of torque from that engine with the 3.31 rear end. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a costly mistake for you. Good luck.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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02-25-2011, 04:40 PM
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#25
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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I have been following this thread, and feel the need to put in my $02.
Adding airbags to a 1/2 ton truck does not increase the payload, or the GAWR......it is still a 1/2 ton truck. A 5th wheel trailer is going to exceed the GVWR, and probably rear GAWR.
The listed payload capacity is misleading. On my truck the title lists 5236 lb. empty weight, with a GVWR of 7200 lbs., giving me a payload of 1964 lbs......don't believe it. I have weighed my F150 with me in it, 3/4 tank of gas, less than 100 lbs. of personal gear, and TracRac rails only, and I am right at 6000 lbs. That gives me an actual payload of 1200 lbs.....below the listed dry weight of the 5th wheeler in question........and that is empty weight. What happens when you add a 100 lb. hitch, the wife, kids, and other camping supplies, plus the added weight of the hitch when the 5th wheel is loaded for camping. The total is going to be well over the GVWR of the F150.
IMHO, most 5th wheels should be towed by a truck that has a full floating rear axle, ie a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. To put that kinda weight on a semi-floating axle found on 1/2 ton trucks is going to cause premature axle failure.
Put this question out there on RV.net and see what kind of answers are given......I betcha those will not be near as mild as the 1s given here.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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02-25-2011, 05:02 PM
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#26
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisGSF
Here's what the plans are. Tell me if I'm crazy or not.
TV 2011 F-150 Crew Cab Ecoboost.
11,300 lb towing capacity
1960 lb payload capacity
GCWR 17,100 lbs
2011 Rockwood 5th Wheel Model 8281SS
Hitch weight 1407 lbs
Dry Weight 7308 lbs
GVWR 9407 lbs
31 ft 2" length
Would you do it? I'm thinking I will. Just getting all the plans together.
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Travis,
I may be misreading here but my F250 only has a GVWR of 15500. Are you sure about the 17100?
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02-25-2011, 05:04 PM
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#27
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,327
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It appears to some of you posters, that the GVWR limit only applies to 1/2 trucks. If you have a 3/4 diesel, you've posted that it's okay to exceed the truck's GVWR, as long as you don't exceed the RAWR.
Interesting...
Dave
__________________
Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
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02-25-2011, 05:19 PM
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#28
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakman
3.5 liter V6 Ecoboost with a 3.31 rear end when you plan on towing over 8000 pounds.
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When I've looked at these trucks on Ford's site, you automatically get the 3.73 rear axle ratio when you select the max tow package. The towing rating would be a lot less at 11,300# with a 3.31 rear axle ratio.
Dave
__________________
Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
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02-25-2011, 05:28 PM
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#29
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Monica
When I've looked at these trucks on Ford's site, you automatically get the 3.73 rear axle ratio when you select the max tow package. The towing rating would be a lot less at 11,300# with a 3.31 rear axle ratio.
Dave
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I didn't see where the OPer stated the final drive ratio. If it is 3.31 gears, then maximum GVWR is 14,000 lbs. with an 8200 lb. tow capacity. The figures that the OPer gave match up with 3.73s.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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02-25-2011, 05:35 PM
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#30
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 16
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Yes I will definitely have the 3.73 gears.
__________________
2012 Ford F250 Crew Cab 6.7L FX4
2012 Open Range TT 320 RES (Sold)
5th Wheel searching.
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02-25-2011, 06:52 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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Whoops, my bad. The two trucks they had locally have 3.31 in them.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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02-25-2011, 07:56 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Monica
It appears to some of you posters, that the GVWR limit only applies to 1/2 trucks. If you have a 3/4 diesel, you've posted that it's okay to exceed the truck's GVWR, as long as you don't exceed the RAWR.
Interesting...
Dave
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There is not much leeway in a half ton after you reach the GVWR until you reach the RAWR. In the F250 my GVWR is 9200. The FAWR is 5600 and the RAWR is 6100. Much more leeway there. Plus there is very little difference, slightly larger rear axle and extra rear leaf spring, between the F250 and F350 which is rated much higher. I don't exceed my F250 rating, but I wouldn't worry about it much if I did because I still wouldn't be even close to the axle ratings. This truck is but like a tank.
Light duty trucks are the only ones that even have a GVWR. Larger trucks simply go by the axle ratings. The GVWR is only listed (IMO) to limit manufacturer liability.
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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02-25-2011, 08:52 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy
I have been following this thread, and feel the need to put in my $02.
Adding airbags to a 1/2 ton truck does not increase the payload, or the GAWR......it is still a 1/2 ton truck. A 5th wheel trailer is going to exceed the GVWR, and probably rear GAWR.
The listed payload capacity is misleading. On my truck the title lists 5236 lb. empty weight, with a GVWR of 7200 lbs., giving me a payload of 1964 lbs......don't believe it. I have weighed my F150 with me in it, 3/4 tank of gas, less than 100 lbs. of personal gear, and TracRac rails only, and I am right at 6000 lbs. That gives me an actual payload of 1200 lbs.....below the listed dry weight of the 5th wheeler in question........and that is empty weight. What happens when you add a 100 lb. hitch, the wife, kids, and other camping supplies, plus the added weight of the hitch when the 5th wheel is loaded for camping. The total is going to be well over the GVWR of the F150.
IMHO, most 5th wheels should be towed by a truck that has a full floating rear axle, ie a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. To put that kinda weight on a semi-floating axle found on 1/2 ton trucks is going to cause premature axle failure.
Put this question out there on RV.net and see what kind of answers are given......I betcha those will not be near as mild as the 1s given here.
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Well said.
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02-26-2011, 08:11 AM
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#34
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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There are some very dangerous ideas being floated here as "gospel".
Front and Rear Axle max weights are for the axles only. Gross Vehicle weight is for the FRAME and hardware that connects the two axles together.
Exceed any of these specs at your peril. Sitting on the side of the road with a broken shackle or cracked frame is no fun at all..
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-26-2011, 09:48 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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Herk,
I am in NO way advocating exceeding any rating with any truck and I don't with my own. My point was that with my truck, it is already built to take more weight than the label. For example adding the $150 camper package to a F250 adds a leaf to the rear and the GVWR is raised 800 lbs. Same everything else on the truck. An air bag would accomplish the same thing as the extra spring. Maybe I'm missing something on why this would be dangerous.
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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02-26-2011, 11:01 AM
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#36
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrjet
For example adding the $150 camper package to a F250 adds a leaf to the rear and the GVWR is raised 800 lbs. Same everything else on the truck. An air bag would accomplish the same thing as the extra spring. Maybe I'm missing something on why this would be dangerous.
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lbrejet, I did not specifically mention you as I have seen this "air bag/helper spring" argument presented before. Well, let me try to answer this in a way you might find reasonable.
1) GVWR is a number that includes any dealer installed options and is on the label and is accurate. Nothing you can buy and "add on" will increase your GVWR.
2) Airbags and user installed helper springs DO NOT change that label. They are ride levelers only. You have no way of knowing for sure when the "upper limit" for the frame has been reached. So your statement that air bags do the same thing as helper springs" is correct. Neither do anything to raise the GVW of your truck.
The newer GM trucks are an excellent example. The 2010 and the 2008 line of 2500HD trucks are identical in construction; EXCEPT; the 2010 and later trucks have a FULL BOX frame instead of the C Beam frame of the earlier 2500HDs. That one change resulted in an additional 900 pounds to the max GVW (from 9200 pounds to 10,100 pounds).
Your comment about "same as everything else on the truck" also is suspect, since you have no way of knowing what else has been changed as a result of the $150.00 camper option. A second "House Battery" and wiring is an example of what may have been part of the modification. Again, that weight was included in the sticker max GVW.
That "extra leaf" may be an entire new heavier duty stiffer spring that may also have included heavier duty shackles and attachment hardware; harder mounting bolts and possibly welded stiffener plates for truck mounted camper duty.
Now you see why ignoring the max stated GVW of your TV is "dangerous? Hope this helps.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-26-2011, 11:06 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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You know your truck, I know my truck. We can agree to disagree and leave it at that.
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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02-26-2011, 06:02 PM
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#38
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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This is an open forum.
You can have any opinion you like.
Caveat Lector.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-26-2011, 08:59 PM
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 6,949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
Caveat Lector.
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Lou, I actually know what that means...
after a visit to Wikipedia.
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02-27-2011, 10:09 AM
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#40
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Happy you checked! I thought it was appropriate.
Sent from my iPad using Forest River
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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