Cracks in 5th wheel pin box to frame - Page 2

MtnGuy · 11-19-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezolen

So when Toyota discovered accelerator problem and car is out of warrantee did they blame and suggest to owners to fight with component manufacturer?
NOT
Only the RV industry gets away with this

Deniability is the name of the game.

tinyphil · 11-19-2010, 09:13 PM

I filed a safety complaint on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration web site. It took me a while to find the correct place to file the complaint. As I found out the NTSB is only an accident investigation agency. Their was a FAQ on their site that referred me to the NHTSA web site. We will see if anything comes from this complaint, I sure hope so.

Dale S · 09-28-2011, 12:13 PM

I have the same problem on my 2006 Forest River Wildcat 31QBH, I contacted both Forest River and Lippert, Eventually Lippert had a Service Tech come out and he did make a repair of the front Cross Memeber, (replaced it with a 7 Gauge 2x5, original was an 11 Gauge) but he falied to repair or replace the rear cross member. He originally wanted me to pay for the work up from but on the second visit he did it free of charge. Although I still had to pay the dealer to R/R the front nose cap. I still have a request to Lippert/Forest River to complete the repair and reimburse me for all my expenses, including an RV rental. In addition I have logged a complaint with Transport Canada and it has bee escalated to a level 3 investigation (serious). I have also contacted NHTSA in the US but since I am Canadian they will not accept my complaint, The complaint line did a search and could not find any other complaints. In addition a new consumer That has contacted me has also made a formal complaint to Transport Canada. I reccommend any effected consumers in the US follow up and make a formal complaint to the NHTSA ASAP.

Dale

TURBS · 09-28-2011, 01:03 PM

makes you wonder how many of these are running around "cracked" and not broken .
you blamed forest river , forest river blamed lippert I am surprised lippert didnt blame the us hiway admistration I suppose they would blame the road workers and they in turn the concrete company and they would blame the aggregate company. hmmmm viscious circle !

Denis · 10-13-2011, 10:47 AM

New to Forest River Forum and looking for info on possible frame problems. Earlier this year I noticed that the aluminum siding at the front of the trailer had separated at one of the interlocking seams. Judging by the leaf debris inside it had likely been open since our return from the Baja in the spring. (first trip for this trailer bought used in 2010). I was able to push it back together and carried on with our weekend jaunt only to see that it had again popped out. Thinking that the interlocking lip let go with the wind pressure I relocated it and screw and sealed it in place. the buckling aluminum panel seemed consistant with possible frame twisting upward.
As I was getting ready for another trip this weekend, I watched closely as I lowered the trailer onto the truck. As the load was applied the pannelling around the pinbox appearred to sag inward and subtle creaks could be heard. I looked casually at the pin box welds and all seemed to be fine. I going to reexamine the pin box and surrounding area in better light and try to determine what is causing the inward sagging action of the underside panelling.
As well, he pin box seems to be on a bit of angle when disconected from the trailer. Has anyone experience similar problems? where should I look for twisting. Ideas anyone?

Dale S · 10-13-2011, 11:58 AM

You will have to remove the underside panel to inspect the front cross member (Pain in the Butt) if you are unlucky you may see cracks in the rear cross member where the Hitch box is welded to it. Also inspect the interior front bed room. I noticed the paneling of the closet had buckled out ward. (the door frame of the closet was intact) this was caused by the Front cross member forcing the plywood subfloor upward.
Just to let you know Lipper Components is sending a technician again to repair my unit and covering all the costs for R/R of the exterior skin and nose cap. They are also reimbursing me for all my cost so far. You will need to contact both Forest River to start, They will pass it off to Lippert Components. I would also suggest all you american owners with this same issue contact the NHTSA and demand an investigation. as a Canadian, I have started one from my end with Transport Canada

**Herk7769** · 10-13-2011, 02:42 PM

The pin box welds to the cross spar are on my annual inspection checklist now. My friend's Montana cracked the welds so this is an issue for everyone. These photos were not his Montana but they could have been, I use them so I know what to look for when inspecting mine.

Dale S · 10-13-2011, 03:17 PM

Lou, Your images look very similar to mine, From discussions I have had with My Enginering clients, this is result by metal fatigue. The primary issue is undersized structural steel used in the crossmember. The other 3 owners in my city ( with similar Issues) that I have talked too all use there RV's and tend to put on average 2000-4000 km per year. This is not an issue of overloaded RV's. and not if but when will it happen. When I tried to also complain to the NHTSA. the person I talked to said they have not had any complaints or investigations on this matter. Start complaining and get your voices heard, or the RV industry will just get this swept under the bed.

**Herk7769** · 10-13-2011, 03:45 PM

I have noticed that the join between the pinbox and the frame DOES move around a lot. Like the "paperclip example" with a lot of use this will be a problem eventually.

Denis · 10-17-2011, 09:04 AM

Thanks for all the quick responses. After further inspection I did find a crack a the top of the rear cross member. I took it over to my guy and his next steps are to pull the bottom off and have a look. The situation appearred to have worsened after the 50 k drive to the shop. maybe becauseI had no balancing load in the rear. They had just finished a similar repair and said it was a big job. I will try to contact Forest River and Lippert and transport canada. I am at a crossroad, While it maybe cheaper to fix it, the question is will it last. Has anyone had a specific engineering opinion on what would be a quality fix. The one comment on metal fatigue seems consistent with my situation since I have been very careful not to overlaod the pin and balance the load front and rear. Also we travel about 15,000 miles a year. That's alot of bouncing even with air bags. Again Thanks

tinyphil · 10-17-2011, 10:28 PM

I had this same problem about a year ago. I had the front cross member replaced and they welded a .25 in. thick plate on the face of the rear cross meber. they also added gussets between the pin box and the cross members. I have not have any more problems since the repair was completed. I just got back from a 11400 mile trip to Alaska and had no problems. I also filed a complaint with the NHTSA and have not heard a word from them. Good luck with your repairs,
Tinyphil

Denis · 10-19-2011, 07:51 AM

Thanks for the infoTP. I heard back from Lippert and they have asked me to submit pictures we will see the full extent of the damage. They actually returned my call and called me because of a referal from my forest river call. They gave me a reference # so I feel I feel encouraged. Did you replace the cross member or put the .25 plate and gussets on the existing member? Oh by the way my error the trailer is a 2008. Denis

**Herk7769** · 10-19-2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale S

Lou, Your images look very similar to mine, From discussions I have had with My Enginering clients, this is result by metal fatigue. The primary issue is undersized structural steel used in the crossmember. The other 3 owners in my city ( with similar Issues) that I have talked too all use there RV's and tend to put on average 2000-4000 km per year. This is not an issue of overloaded RV's. and not if but when will it happen. When I tried to also complain to the NHTSA. the person I talked to said they have not had any complaints or investigations on this matter. Start complaining and get your voices heard, or the RV industry will just get this swept under the bed.

Dale, They are yours. I was using them as "what to look for" when inspecting the pin box welds and crossbeam. Photo "ownership" seems to get smeared around a lot.

hihosilver09 · 10-31-2011, 05:33 PM

Why don't more RVers band together to do a class action law suit against these RV maufactures who don't stand behind their products. I have a year warranty on my $15.00 dollar toaster, a years warranty on most of my under $100.00 house hold appliances. A year on a major purchase of an RV is at best a joke on consumers. I just wonder if there has been an accident out there caused by a Lippert frame failing??

hitch hiker · 12-05-2011, 07:13 AM

hi
i have a palomino thoroughbred f-830RLS which i purchased new in england in april 2010, no real problems [touch wood] yet. but having read these threads regarding chassis to pin box cracking, i wonder if i have a problem waiting to happen, i have contacted forest river to see if my 5th wheel may be one with a problem, any advise would be appreciated.
hitch hiker.

hihosilver09 · 12-05-2011, 12:16 PM

Hi, The day we bought our Silverback it had a crack on the left side on nose in gel coat, we were told by our dealer that they were not sure what had happened but, they turned it into Forest River and they repaired it. We took a nice long trip last summer and noticed at first that in the bedroom the trim was bent and we could see daylight in both corners of the front of the bedroom. Then when we got home we were washing it and noticed it had three cracks in gel coat, one by the door and two on the nose, one of them in the same spot that had been repaired. We sent pictures to Forest River and at first Forest River denied our claim telling us a bird must have hit us or a rock, humm, well we did some extensive research and found that the type of cracking was coming from inside of the nose and the side was a stress crack from twisting. We again contacted Forest River and told them we were going to persue the matter in court if we had to. They agreed to have the nose cap removed. Our dealer was no help and so we went to another Forest River dealer in town and when they picked the coach up with a fork lift after they had the nose cap off they noticed that the frame was flexing, they took a better look at it and it there were no welds in the center of the frame, and the two welds on both sides were broken and also part of the frame had cracks in it. Our coach is now in Indiana waiting its turn to be repaired. We were told by several RV techs that is it a wonder the nose of the 5th wheel didn't fall down on the bed of our truck. Not sure when we will get our coach back, at first they said Feb, but not sure. So far we have not had our coach for 2 months. We have searched the RV Forums and found a lot of people have had major issues with weld and frame failures on Lippert Frames. We are happy that they are going to fix it but, very upset that it happened in the first place.

Hope this helps others who perhaps face frame issues in Forest River products

Kat · 12-14-2011, 10:41 PM

I had this same problem about 2 months ago. I had the front cross member replaced and they welded a plate on the face of the rear cross meber, They also added gussets between the pin box and the cross members. All of this original steel was .097" It was replaced with .250" steel .Also replaced the bedroom wall that was cracked from the frame pushing through. This was on a 2008 Toyhauler Cherokee Wolfpack W295 that was bought new and never had more than 2 quads in it weighing 900ibs total. Never towed behind it either. I have called Lippert
Michael Locke, Customer Service Supervisor Lippert Components Inc
Customer Service Division Plant 39 ,866-524-7821 ,574-534-7161 Fax (mlocke@lci1.com) and
Forest river (bmiller@forestriverinc.com) Bob Miller ,Phone: 260-593-0023
Fax: 574-970-6879, and have been given the same answer as everyone else. Sorry out of warranty. My repair bill was $5400.
Working my way up the food chain as we speak.

Mountainmanbob · 12-15-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyphil

I have included some picture of the failed pin box to frame.

strange looking breaks (tears) in your metal
looks like the wrong gauge metal was use
I would say at least two gauges too light ??

a blessed day wished for all
from
Mountainman

sailboatr · 12-22-2011, 05:33 PM

OK....heres what Ive seen in the last 12+ years of owning a camper....
When the Carlisle tires were blowing apart NOONE CONTACTED ANY RV OWNERS yet there were thousands of tires blowing and noone knew why...assumed was wera and tear and left it
When the axles were all welded off align and everyone was eating up tires in 2500 miles NOONE CONTACTED OWNERS TO INFORM THEM THEY WERE BAD....hundreds of people thought they just hit something.........
I truly dont believe there are any real rules pertaining to RV's as an industry governed by FMCSA....NHTSA...or DOT...Ive been with trucks for over 30 years and even a small issue is handled!.....I too have now got frame issues and they will NOT go unresolved...will keep all posted

hihosilver09 · 01-28-2012, 04:52 PM

Forest River called and told us our 2009 Silverback has been repaired and they have hired a transport co to transport it back here. We had wanted to go pick it up but, couldn't do it at this time. They rebuilt the front end and put gussets and straps to hold it and rewelded where the welds failed and welded where there were missing welds and , put new axles and tires on it as it had those nasty sealed bearings in it. Not sure when it will get here but, I hope soon, it has been in Indiana for 10 weeks, I sure hope it is fixed and we will have no more issues with it

We have owned it for 16 months and it has been in the shop for almost three months, if everything is ok, and it is fixed I will then

I just fail to comprehend the lack of quality control and inspection of these RVs before they are sent out to the Dealers and purchased by consumers who are the ones who have to suffer from poor quality and workmanship. Not to mention the cost to Forest River for the return of units, and reputation of the Co.

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