Dear Forest River, Why is Quality Control non-existent?!

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Vern

Interesting...My Windjammer was built there at Millersburg, too, and there have few very few issues with it. Tip of the hat to the Millersburg plant!

Well I have had a Rockwood popup, Rockwood TT and now a Greywolf TT. We have not had any issues as described above. So I have posted here some what complaining but I really cannot. I am handy and willing to work on the small things. I guess we also must have been very lucky with our purchases.

But I do agree, people want everything perfect, now and free. But in their defense the sticker said my MSRP was some $35,000 (complete BS IMO) that I could by for $20,000 something. For 35 grand they can at least look like they thought out the way they build them. I understand things go wrong, it is a shed / house on wheels rocketing down a road. But with that said, it is a house on wheels rocking down the road.... Brad nails do not work! LOL

But I just accept the fact that this is what it is and buy screws that match the paint color and just start replacing things. I caulk the 1/4" gaps between my shower enclosure and move the door knob so it actually lines up with the door frame (off by 1") and re-seal the seams they seem to have forgotten about.

But, with all that I will still keep buying FR because it is how they all seem to be. This is the standard that is apparently acceptable, at least as of now.

[JoeNanMinn]

ya VERN thats kinda whats happened with ours. I've never had a $34,000 hobby before.

[Vern]

Originally Posted by JoeNanMinn

ya VERN thats kinda whats happened with ours. I've never had a $34,000 hobby before.

Yep, it is a lot of money...still, I get more enjoyment than I deserve out of it (despite the imperfections), AND an education to boot (thanks to the imperfections)!

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Vern

Yep, it is a lot of money...still, I get more enjoyment than I deserve out of it (despite the imperfections), AND an education to boot (thanks to the imperfections)!

I agree. I have close to a month total so far this spring and summer in our trailer and over 4,000 miles this year alone on long weekend trips and such. I have enjoyed every second of it. Then with this forum, the great people here, and the work I have done (and learned how to do from here and youtube) I have also gotten more enjoyment out of this than one should be allowed. I try not to let the little stuff bug me, just roll with it and get it done!

[rwmurphy]

Quality Amish builders

[RETCHIEF]

I have replaced #4 screws with #8s as one #4 can't hold the entire drawer assembly. The cabinets are hitting each other and the caulked nail holes drive me crazy. My next unit will get a thorough inspection on delivery.

[txredfish]

I agree with most in that it is both a build and QC problem in all the industry.
Some manufacturers are worse than others. Things like brades into aluminum is a design issue. On my TT, the FM antenna was mounted about 8 inches from the TV antenna. Each time the TV antenna turns it hits the FM antenna. I have drawer that will not close. Bad drawer track. Unacceptable. These things are not checked either during the build or QC. Both a design and QC problem. The one poster said that his black water pull handle mounted inside the TT. These things should not be. QC should catch these kind of things.

[The_Rhino]

It is regrettable that many do not make the effort or take the time to become acquainted with or develop the competencies to personally judge the quality or construction when selecting and purchasing an RV.

We bought our very first TT last year (used) but before purchasing it I spent over 4 hours checking it out - 2 hours during heavy rains plus another 2.5 hours during a thorough PDI. This is after I passed-up many NEW TT's that did not pass my inspections... In the lots I viewed the same brand/model/year but one unit was clearly built better than the other. Therefore I will never "order" a unit sight unseen & I will certainly not buy one out-of-state & have it delivered to my driveway sight-unseen.... Our local dealers have competitive prices so I'm not going to take a chance ordering it from a wholesaler just to save a couple grand...

[vinmaker]

I think we all get what we pay for. These units are not that expensive when you consider the amount of work and materials that go into making one of these. I would challenge anyone to hire someone to build them an RV and see what that bill is. Then compare it to a like unit.

I think we are all getting a great deal.

I think we all need to remember that these are houses on wheels. And houses need constant maintenance and repairs.

Vin.

[tlambert]

It's amazing that paying $25-35k for a camper, taking it on a few trips then spending hours to repair things that are built wrong or fall apart, that seems to be ok?

But pay $25-35k for your daily driver vehicle and take it home and work on it (if you could) for CC issues. Would everyone think that's ok?

I have a automotive background and enjoy restoring old cars and campers.
But I don't want to repair something I bought as "new" that's not 30 plus years old.

Just a thought.


Tim

[CC4]

I've had my Tracer Air 250 since last November. Part 1... Lights were not working properly immediately upon getting the unit home. (Damaged power umbilical between trailer and tow vehicle. (umbilical repaired and reinforced by me) Part 2... The front skin had to be replaced due to bulging which also led to cracking. Part 3... The slide out includes the kitchen sink. The drain hose released on the second trip flooding the area under and outside of the kitchen cabinets, stove and sinks. I had to dry it out on site and remove the wood covers below the stove and sink to see what had occurred. A temporary repair later and we completed that adventure with an emergency drop-off to the dealer. Part 4... Popped brads from base moulding both on the wall adjacent to the slide out and next to the couch portion of the slide out. Glue and screws to repair problem. Part 5... Bathroom door jammed and would not open. I had to remove the door knob and replace it in reverse as well as "adjusting" the hinges. Part 6... I've had to rewire the switches at the door as they were reversed from the factory. Part 7... One of the exterior speakers was not connected so I had to wire that from the stereo. Part 8... Whenever lights are turned on inside the trailer the radio/stereo volume is diminished or distorted ? (Still working on de-bugging that problem) Part 9... I have recently discovered that there is a half-inch gap between the rear of the stove top and the laminate counter (I'll be talking to the dealership about that one when I winterize) Part 10... The awning is leaking when deployed. I have found evidence that white caulk was used to attempt a repair. Since it was bought new this is another issue I will be addressing with the dealership.
I love my Tracer Air 250. I looked at dozens of designs before deciding on this design. I am frustrated by the fact that on average I am doing repair work for every one out of three days spent camping. I live in constant fear that on one trip something is going to occur that I can't do a quick temporary fix on. I still haven't figured out how to manually close the slide out or the awning should the need arise. And my dealership hasn't been able to show me either as they've only had my unit on their lot and there is no visible access to the slide motor from the outside or the inside. I would definitely like to see better QC on travel trailers. They are not inexpensive to purchase and certainly should be better made if only for safety reasons. I'm lucky that I have friends that have done total rebuilds on used trailers in the past so I know I can always enlist aid and experience if something major happens but that isn't something I should have to think about as I am motoring to my next trailering adventure.

[numbersman]

We bought a new Cedar Creek 38FL and spent huge bucks. From the outside, it is a beautiful trailer, but from the inside, we have had a nightmare of problems involving 30+ quality and design issues. We have evolved from tent to FR pop up to a Montana to an Everest and finally to the new Cedar Creek. Our PDI at the dealer was over 2 hours late than our appointment and was rushed through because the dealer was closing for the day, and we had to move all of our belongings out of the old trailer into the new one at the end after the PDI. After paying over 60K, we never imagined that we needed to check for design and quality issues. Ignorance was bliss and we never had an inkling of the potential quantity and diversity of the defects that we would run into. I came out of the auto industry with titles like Materials, Mfg and Continuous Improvement manager at several plants. As I read the comments before this, I am appalled at those people that accept the shody craftsmanship and enjoy and expect making
the corrections on their units. While I am fairly handy, I do not enjoy nor do I expect or look forward to fixing some engineers design or some line operator's errors. I do not accept the fact that pulling a house on wheels brings an expectation of issues. This industry is not new but has had 70 to 80 years to improve their product. I did not spend huge dollars to spend any significant time at 70+ years of age under my 5th wheel fixing mfg issues. Shame on you guys suggesting that that should be the "norm"! I enjoy the trouble shooting insights now that I have discovered this site, but let's unite in holding FR feet to the fire in improving their horrible track record. Doors falling off in travel, ceilings coming down from jousts, refrigerators that fly open in transit and dent the SS fronts, faucets that revolve 180 degrees, electric slides that jam and will not pull back in, shower doors that leak with handles that fall off, back splash behind stoves that fall off, and many more are not issues that one should have to deal with on a $60K 5th wheel. Our unit is headed back to the factory next month for a in-depth PDI. I plan to send back all the screws that have fallen out. I think some of the screws are from me since I must have had several screws loose to have bought this disaster!!
F-450 diesel
2014 Cedar Creek 38FL

[Cag2515]

[ I just picked up my Cedar Creek 38ck 2016 screws are falling out shelve bottoms cave in workmanship is terrible. Should have had for 6 volt batteries for my residential refrigerator was never told anything about it I received one 12 volt does not do the job

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Vern

Members should remember that FRF is not affiliated with Forest River, and its members are not the enemy, just fellow owners. The forum is, therefore, probably not the best place or channel via which to attempt to register initial or formal complaints with the company, IMO. I care because the bulk of complaints overshadows the "good" stuff available here, sometimes unnecessarily. The squeaky wheel only gets the grease when you are addressing the party with the grease gun.

Personally, I miss the days when it seemed a majority of the posts here involved people raising specific use, maintenance and repair issues involving their own rigs here on FRF, then received helpful assistance from the many experienced RV owners who belong to the forum in addressing their concerns. The educational value of looking in on those conversations and the sense of community from seeing the "troubleshooting by committee" on here make us each more competent and confident owners and operators of our respective RVs. Ultimately, with respect to most of the issues and defects about which people complain here, that free education provides answers and competencies which help members to deal with the consequences of the "poor QC" so often complained of here, and equip us to better plan, purchase, and operate our RVs going forward, with less help from or reliance upon dealers or Forest River.

Great post Lee. With your permission, I would like to be able to use the squeaky wheel/grease gun comment in future threads. It is a simple and accurate assessment of our forums.

[Vern]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Great post Lee. With your permission, I would like to be able to use the squeaky wheel/grease gun comment in future threads. It is a simple and accurate assessment of our forums.

Thanks. No permission required. Sharing is sharing.

I have to say my wife will be very surprised to hear anyone ever described anything I'd written as "simple and accurate"...She thinks me wordy...methinks she knows me well.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Vern

This forum is a valuable asset which serves many purposes.



I know some people just need to rant and vent. I also understand that RVs don't measure up to the very high expectations held by uninformed (particularly first-time) buyers. Such persons find an audience here.



It is regrettable that many do not make the effort or take the time to become acquainted with or develop the competencies to personally judge the quality or construction when selecting and purchasing an RV. We often hear stories from those who essentially purchase a new rig sight-unseen from a dealer they've never met, which has the rig delivered from 1,000 miles away by a hired driver. The buyer then foregoes an owner PDI (imagining that as the dealer's sole responsibility, not one share by the buyer). Such buyers come to the table with expectations that the purchase of a new RV is (or should be) like buying an automobile or a new house, as they often so state here. If something is wrong, they just take it to the local dealer, only to learn the local dealer has its own full plate of work for its existing customers and is reluctant to drop everything to repair the rig which they did not sell. [On the other hand, anyone who is fortunate enough to find and research forums like this one before making that decision come to the task with a much more informed understanding, a discerning perspective, and reasonable set of expectations, equipped with the tools necessary to have at least a fighting chance in the purchasing process.]



Members should remember that FRF is not affiliated with Forest River, and its members are not the enemy, just fellow owners. The forum is, therefore, probably not the best place or channel via which to attempt to register initial or formal complaints with the company, IMO. I care because the bulk of complaints overshadows the "good" stuff available here, sometimes unnecessarily. The squeaky wheel only gets the grease when you are addressing the party with the grease gun.



Personally, I miss the days when it seemed a majority of the posts here involved people raising specific use, maintenance and repair issues involving their own rigs here on FRF, then received helpful assistance from the many experienced RV owners who belong to the forum in addressing their concerns. The educational value of looking in on those conversations and the sense of community from seeing the "troubleshooting by committee" on here make us each more competent and confident owners and operators of our respective RVs. Ultimately, with respect to most of the issues and defects about which people complain here, that free education provides answers and competencies which help members to deal with the consequences of the "poor QC" so often complained of here, and equip us to better plan, purchase, and operate our RVs going forward, with less help from or reliance upon dealers or Forest River.

Vern this should be a sticky on every page of this forum. Well stated. Thank you Sir.

[Mrs Evans]

Originally Posted by Vern

Thanks. No permission required. Sharing is sharing.

I have to say my wife will be very surprised to hear anyone ever described anything I'd written as "simple and accurate"...She thinks me wordy...methinks she knows me well.

I'm sure she appreciates how you are over the sterotypical he-man/caveman 'grunt grunt' 'me man' form of communication but I digress, your post was realistic, peaceable and reasonable - all good qualities

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Vince and Charlette

We can't ignore three other things: customer demand for highest quality, need to remain within weight limitations with lighter/thinner/lower quality materials, and the need to retain profitability in a competitive marketplace. Until customers stop buying this stuff, or until a high quality competitor (e.g. Japanese) enters the picture, I believe we must live within the boundaries we have. So, my advice- make your RV your hobby. OK, shoot!

A quality manufacturers? I can't believe you said a Japanese manufacturer. I have bought Japanese cars and never again. I bought one in the late 70's when they were all the answers and it was the biggest mistake. What garbage. American manufacturing is just fine thank you.

[Windjammin]

That man is Warren Buffett and his company is Berkshire Hathaway.

[cowboy72]

I agree with Vern for most of his message especially the opening part about that the Internet FRF is not the enemy. However since these post are by subject one can choose not to enter the negative subject discussion. I believe people need to vent sometimes and Internet Forums are a great place to do it if done so in a respectful manner.

Continuing with the Quality Control part I also believe these companies could do a lot better job of doing QC. From the videos I've seen, I have know idea why they are moving that fast and rushing around like they are in a race. For one they simply don't sell as many as they make. Better to slow it down and take their time to build something with quality rather then to rush it out the door only to tarnish their name.

In saying that though and since I work in a manufacturing shop I have to say I think trailers are a bargain for what you pay. For example I just bought my first trailer for 45k cdn. 37.7' 2015 329 BHT Lacrosse. I couldn't believe what I was actually getting for that amount of money. So just a couple major problems and a few minor problems that I was able to fix myself for 45k was a pretty good deal. I thought Prime Time was excellent when I had an issue with my major problem. They helped me right away and paid for the full service.

Winter is coming up here in Alberta and already I'm getting excited for next year camping season.