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Old 06-22-2012, 01:03 AM   #1
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I need you opinion on this trailer/truck combo - Stealth LM3814

Hi guys,

I want to know what your opinion is on towing this trailer.

Forest River Stealth LM3814, 38 foot, 42 foot overall length
Giant RV 2012 Forest River Stealth CSFFLM3814

Here are the trailer stats with actual weights:
Dry Weight: 12,430
Fuel Station: 216
Water: 834
4 Quads: 1400
Wood: 500
Food: 200
TOTAL: 15,580

Payload Reducing Items
Passengers in truck: 390
Slider Hitch: 215
TOTAL: 605

Here are my tow vehicle stats:
2011 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab 6.6 Duramax Diesel 4x4 Standard Bed SRW
Conventional Trailer Tow Rating: 13,000
5th Wheel Trailer Tow Rating: 16,700
Max Payload: 3,123
Truck Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 10,000
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 24,500
Front Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): 5,200
Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): 6,200
Tires: Toyo Open Country All Terrain LT285/55R20 122S E/10, Load Range: E, Ply: 10 Ply, Max Load Rating: 3305lbs @ 80PSI
Actual Front Axle Weight: 4520
Actual Rear Axle Weight: 3060
Actual Total Weight: 7580 (full diesel tank, no passengers or cargo)
Actual useable payload: 1,815
Payload calculation
10,000 GVWR
-7580 truck with full tank of fuel
-390 2 adults, 2 kids
-215 slider hitch

This would be worst case scenario fully loaded with the heaviest toys with 4 people in the truck. In reality it would never reach these weights. Just looking for your opinions! Thanks everyone!
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:52 AM   #2
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the one thing I do not see listed in your calculations is the king pin weight. That is going to add about 2k-3k to you GVWR of your TV. Did you weigh your truck yourself or did you pull the stats offline? Many factors go into it, and you are close to the max of your TV if not over from the initial appearance.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:56 AM   #3
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I weighed the truck myself. All of the actual weights are measured by me. I would say pin weight would be 2337 @ 15% and 3116 @20%
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:00 AM   #4
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well by those numbers, your biggest issue is going to be pin weight adding to your GVWR of your TV.....as it looks to my tired eyes anyway, that you only have 2k play room to reach your GVWR, axle weight would be close too if not exceeding.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:30 AM   #5
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You will be over your payload (and possibly other things) with proper pin weight. Dry it looks to be 2611 per the Forest River website. I think you might be better served with a DRW for a 40' 5er TH.

In your initial weight calculations for the trailer, you are forgeting a lot of things:
-Clothing/riding gear- can add as much as 200lbs depending on how long you pack for and how many people.
- Camping gear (grill, chairs, tables, games, etc.)- Could be another 200lbs there.
- RV gear (chocks, leveling blocks/pads, sewer and water hoses, tools, etc)- Depending on if you are Herk or not might be another 200 lbs or more.
- Other necessary household items (pots/pans, utencils, cleaning supplies)- Maybe another 50-100 lbs, again depending on what you use or need (I like my cast iron for camp cooking, but thats a lot of extra weight for pans)
- Entertainment items (DVD's, board games, kids toys/games)- Maybe 25-50lbs more there.

Another possible 750lbs[<=edited for poor mental math] of unaccounted weight there, and with a big monster 5'er like that, there is a lot of places to store stuff, you might not realize you even had that much in there.

Just some things to throw on the thought table. Personally, thats pushing it closer than even I (borderline with my TT/TV setup) would dare to go. However, it's your choice and your safety, so it's ultimately up to you to weigh that out (pun intended). In any case, be safe!
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:49 AM   #6
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Have you considered a KW or Pete as a TV? I hear the come with automatics now and with about a 500HP motor, I think it would be just what you need.

Otherwise you are close to your limits, my $.02.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsgtivr6 View Post
- RV gear (chocks, leveling blocks/pads, sewer and water hoses, tools, etc)- Depending on if you are Herk or not might be another 200 lbs or more.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:25 AM   #8
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It appears you've done your homework (kudos for that!).

IMHO, you are too close to (if not over) your limits for comfort for me. With that weight and length, I would feel better with a dually for the extra stability.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:01 PM   #9
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Thank you all for your advice. You are right.. I didn't even think about how much our riding gear weighs and the pots and pans. With this configuration I know I am really close (and over in some cases) to my TV limits. I don't want to be that ass driving down the road putting everyones lifes in danger because I can not stop 16k worth of trailer. I am also considering this trailer.. let me know your opinions on this one....
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:09 PM   #10
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I dont see anything listed for the other trailer.....was there supposed to be a link there?
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #11
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Eclipse Attitude F34CRSG (three axles)
F34RSG - Attitude Wide Body 5th Wheel Toy Haulers From Eclipse

Here are the trailer stats with actual weights:
Dry Weight: 11,180
Trailer GVWR: 15,000
Fuel Station: 216
Water: 1,051
4 Quads: 1400
Wood: 500
Food: 200
Riding gear, pots, pans, games etc: 750
TOTAL: 15,297
Dry Pin Weight: 2,800
Pin Weight Estimated @ 15%: 2,295
Pin Weight Estimated @ 20%: 3,060
Pin Weight Estimated @ 25%: 3,824

Payload Reducing Items:
Passengers in truck: 390 (2 adults, 2 children)
Slider Hitch: 215
TOTAL: 605

Here are my tow vehicle stats:
2011 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab 6.6 Duramax Diesel 4x4 Standard Bed SRW
Exhaust Brake: Factory
Conventional Trailer Tow Rating: 13,000
5th Wheel Trailer Tow Rating: 16,700
Max Payload: 3,123
Truck Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 10,000
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 24,500
Front Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): 5,200
Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): 6,200
Tires: Toyo Open Country All Terrain LT285/55R20 122S E/10, Load Range: E, Ply: 10 Ply, Max Load Rating: 3305lbs @ 80PSI
Actual Front Axle Weight: 4520
Actual Rear Axle Weight: 3060
Actual Total Weight: 7580 (full diesel tank, no passengers or cargo)
Useable Payload Total (for pin weight) : 1,780
10,000 GVWR
-7580 (actual truck weight with full tank, no passengers)
-390 (passengers)
-250 (slider hitch)


No matter what I am going to be over in the payload/kingpin department. I can accept that since I have a SRW truck. I will feel comfortable as long as I don't exceed my axle or tire ratings.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #12
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This is at max load. I don't think in the real world I would come anywhere close to this. I figured 4 quads in this measurement, when in reality its more like 2 quads, 1 bike, and 1 mini quad (those weight a total of 1,030)
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:12 PM   #13
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By those numbers, I know you realize you will be overweight but so will your rear axle....IMHO I wouldn't pull a TH with a 2500/250 SRW that size...The dry pin weight will almost max what you have available on your GRAWR. You may be able to find a good one thats an UL....maybe not as big and with all the gucci toys inside but will suffice. As well, I just traded in my 07 2500 for a 12 350 as the deals right now are really good. Your call though but I wouldnt think that risk would be worth it.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:33 PM   #14
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Kevin,

As you know from my signature I have a 2008 GMC Sierra with a Duramax engine and the Alison Transmission. While my GVWR of the truck is 900 pounds less than yours (yours has a box frame and mine has a C channel) our tow rating is about the same (15,300 pounds 5th wheel trailer weight).

My truck is maxed out towing my 9300 pound 5th wheel because of the 1500 pound pin load coupled with my family, dog, generator (in the bed), hitch, and spare fuel.

With another 900 pounds of payload available pin in your truck and a 20% pin load, you can add another 4500 pounds of camper.

This should make your maximum trailer size right at 13,800 pounds and no more.

Your plan "B" camper is also way too ambitious as well, IMO. Look for something in the GVWR range of 13-14,000 if you plan on using 100% of your truck's available capacity. 12-13,000 for a safe pad.

It has been my experience that you will use 100% of camper payload eventually.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
Kevin,

As you know from my signature I have a 2008 GMC Sierra with a Duramax engine and the Alison Transmission. While my GVWR of the truck is 900 pounds less than yours (yours has a box frame and mine has a C channel) our tow rating is about the same (15,300 pounds 5th wheel trailer weight).

My truck is maxed out towing my 9300 pound 5th wheel because of the 1500 pound pin load coupled with my family, dog, generator (in the bed), hitch, and spare fuel.

With another 900 pounds of payload available pin in your truck and a 20% pin load, you can add another 4500 pounds of camper.

This should make your maximum trailer size right at 13,800 pounds and no more.

Your plan "B" camper is also way too ambitious as well, IMO. Look for something in the GVWR range of 13-14,000 if you plan on using 100% of your truck's available capacity. 12-13,000 for a safe pad.

It has been my experience that you will use 100% of camper payload eventually.
Thank you for your input Herk!
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
Kevin,

As you know from my signature I have a 2008 GMC Sierra with a Duramax engine and the Alison Transmission. While my GVWR of the truck is 900 pounds less than yours (yours has a box frame and mine has a C channel) our tow rating is about the same (15,300 pounds 5th wheel trailer weight).

My truck is maxed out towing my 9300 pound 5th wheel because of the 1500 pound pin load coupled with my family, dog, generator (in the bed), hitch, and spare fuel.

With another 900 pounds of payload available pin in your truck and a 20% pin load, you can add another 4500 pounds of camper.

This should make your maximum trailer size right at 13,800 pounds and no more.

Your plan "B" camper is also way too ambitious as well, IMO. Look for something in the GVWR range of 13-14,000 if you plan on using 100% of your truck's available capacity. 12-13,000 for a safe pad.

It has been my experience that you will use 100% of camper payload eventually.
Well I like to be ambitious
Thank you for your help!
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:15 AM   #17
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Its my understanding that triple axle trailers reduce some of the pin weight. Is this your experience? And if so, is the reduction amount anything to call home about?
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:13 AM   #18
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Axle count should have little to nothing to do with pin weights. The axle placement would. Think of it like a seesaw. You have a load spread across a fixed distance, but where you place the balance point, or fulcrum, determines how much leverage you will get from either side, thus effecting the balance of the load. adding an extra axle would only disperse weight over the axles, so with 2 axles and 10k lbs, you would distribute that 10k 4 ways with a fairly balanced load (minus pin weight of course). With 3, you sould just spread that load over 6 points, thus lowering the load on each individual tire. as long as the fulcrum, load weighting, and distances stay the same, the leverage remains equal at each end.

Make sense? I hope I got all of that right...
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