Thought I Knew weight management

[wuffwuff]

Currently have a 27' Flagstaff TT. Pulls perfect with my 2017 Ram 2500HD crew/Long bed, 6.4l.
DW wants a 5er, and we need a TOY HAULER .. so went shopping on line and at Dealers only to find that 'most' have pin and gvw over my Ram capacity.
I purchase the 2500HD and ordered it for towing a fifth wheel.
What am I missing here? I know it's next to impossible to pull a 5er with a half ton, so why I'm I running into this this weight wall for a 3 quarter ton.
Just because I need a toy hauler???
The truck has a 3500# cargo and 12000 tow.

[DieselDrax]

Yes, 5er toy haulers are big weight and that pin weight is high when empty because there's nothing in the back to help counter it.

With your truck's payload capacity you'd have no problem finding a non-toy hauler 5er to tow, but move up to a 5er toy hauler and you're in 1-ton dually territory at a minimum.

[andymil]

That’s unusual. I always seem to run out of cargo capacity before I run out of towing or GCVW.

I’m starting to think that if you need more than a half-ton, you might as well get a one-ton.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Yes, 5er toy haulers are big weight and that pin weight is high when empty because there's nothing in the back to help counter it.

With your truck's payload capacity you'd have no problem finding a non-toy hauler 5er to tow, but move up to a 5er toy hauler and you're in 1-ton dually territory at a minimum.

That’s exactly what I did as soon as the wife said she wanted a new trl traded the eco boost in on a 350. While the TT was always under or at payload as soon as I got in the payload was exceeded. Further more if ever wanted to move the TT from one side of yard to other had to do w/d until I installed the timbren because the truck truck dropped to low jack was still on ground. Glad I did wife wanted a 5th wheel loaded right around 23k saw a 250 at a Buckies towing very similar 5er and boy was he sagging very happy with both truck

[Lvn2tvl]

Originally Posted by andymil

That’s unusual. I always seem to run out of cargo capacity before I run out of towing or GCVW.

I’m starting to think that if you need more than a half-ton, you might as well get a one-ton.

X2 yep that's a true statement for sure. Been there, done that. Don't be afraid of the bigger trucks. You'll find they aren't much different than the one you have now. Ironically my 3500 is cheaper to drive and license than the 1/2 ton I started with.

[davel1971]

those capacities don't stand a chance with a toy hauler. Dually diesel for sure. Lots of hitch weight. I get better mileage riding around daily in my 9000 lb dually truck and I ever got with any 1/2 ton I owned. Go big.

[D. J. Schuler]

Same old story, always buy a new/used TV 2-3 RVs beyond what you have currently. F250/2600 can pull a nice 5r but the diesel payload may be less than a F150 EB with heavy duty payload/towing package. 5r TH almost always have a higher pin load since manufacturers don't know what you're going to put in the garage.

[DouglasReid]

You can calculate the pin weight with your toys loaded if you care to take the time. It is a matter of calculating the weight in the toy compartment, its arm as relates to the center between the two axles and the pin weight and its distance in front of the center of the axles.

The weight behind the axles counter balances the weight in front reducing the pin weight. IF your fresh water tank is behind the axles, be sure to calculate that weight too and use it to see how much the pin weight is reduced.

Is the pin weight the only problem or is the tow capacity of a 5er exceeding the capacity of the truck itself. For my truck that max tow information is supplied in the Duramax Supplement to the Owners Manual.

If you aer under your tow capacity but the pin weight still exceeds and the truck squats you can install a set of air bags to level it and take some of the strain off of the suspension.

[aircommuter]

I would go the airbag route, I haul a 14000lb loaded trailer on a so called bumper hitch with mine, just verify your tires as they may need upgrading. I don’t know about your state but in crooked CA getting a new truck will cost several hundred dollars per year more in fees and taxes.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

If you aer under your tow capacity but the pin weight still exceeds and the truck squats you can install a set of air bags to level it and take some of the strain off of the suspension.

Originally Posted by aircommuter

I would go the airbag route, I haul a 14000lb loaded trailer on a so called bumper hitch with mine, just verify your tires as they may need upgrading. I don’t know about your state but in crooked CA getting a new truck will cost several hundred dollars per year more in fees and taxes.

Adding airbags DOES NOT increase your payload capacity. If you are overweight then you are overweight.

[aircommuter]

If you’re referring to the sticker on the door, that is not a legal requirement for non commercial use. I haven’t reviewed the 4th generation Rams like he has but the generation I have uses all the same parts including brakes 3/4 or1 ton. The only difference is springs, tires, and wheels. I have been in truck repair business over fifty years and also owned and operated class 8 trucks. My CDL is still current also.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

If you’re referring to the sticker on the door, that is not a legal requirement for non commercial use. I haven’t reviewed the 4th generation Rams like he has but the generation I have uses all the same parts including brakes 3/4 or1 ton. The only difference is springs, tires, and wheels. I have been in truck repair business over fifty years and also owned and operated class 8 trucks. My CDL is still current also.

That’s great, but doesn’t change the fact that adding airbags does not increase your payload capacity. The airbag manufacturers even state this. If you’re overweight then you’re overweight, if you want to be safe and legal then get the right truck for the job instead of adding aftermarket parts to make up for the truck’s deficiencies.

[aircommuter]

Actually it does increase the capacity, just not the rating. Just like upgrading engine performance, it can be increased and proven on a dyno, but the rating on the sticker doesn’t change. Properly performed modifications can be and are often are better than factory changes, they just do it the lowest cost method, stickers just make people feel like they are getting something special.

[BandJCarm]

Air Suspension Basics for Towing

air bags ok to add load capacity? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-...g-capacity.htm

Same argument I have with a friend who tows horses and horse trailers. He thinks airbags almost double towing capacity. It's a dead end argument with him. Folks just want to do what they want to do.

[aircommuter]

One could also buy the factory 1 ton springs instead of air bags. It doesn’t help one tow more but it does increase weight capacity. Many people increase engine output with modifications but they don’t seem to worry about that. Cars also have ratings for weight, how many people weigh the passengers and luggage? You might be in a lot more trouble trying that with your wife’s friends.

[DieselDrax]

Sorry aircommuter, unless you're a certified coachbuilder you cannot LEGALLY increase the truck's GVWR by swapping parts. You can certainly pay your state to be LICENSED/REGISTERED for a certain weight limit, but that does not change the actual GVWR of the truck. Overweight is overweight. Using the engine modifications example is a non-starter, apples and oranges. The vehicle was not certified to have a certain amount of horsepower.

If YOU want to modify YOUR vehicle in some way to try and justify exceeding GVWR that is one thing, but telling someone else it's OK to do this is horribly irresponsible.

[Seasonal]

Originally Posted by andymil

That’s unusual. I always seem to run out of cargo capacity before I run out of towing or GCVW.

I’m starting to think that if you need more than a half-ton, you might as well get a one-ton.

RAM 1ton, DRW trucks looks sweet. Happy shopping!

[aircommuter]

Like I said you can increase the capacity, not the rating. That is what R stands for. The rating can actually be changed also with a coach builders signature and a list of the parts used. As far as telling someone it ok is your interpretation, I am saying it is possible and can work. I hate to disappoint you more, I did have the license to build truck beds and compltete the un-finished vehicles in my shop. I did flad beds, dump trucks and roll off units as well as building trailers from scratch, flat and tilt bed equipment haulers. Now I just work in my home shop.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Like I said you can increase the capacity, not the rating. That is what R stands for. The rating can actually be changed also with a coach builders signature and a list of the parts used. As far as telling someone it ok is your interpretation, I am saying it is possible and can work. I hate to disappoint you more, I did have the license to build truck beds and compltete the un-finished vehicles in my shop. I did flad beds, dump trucks and roll off units as well as building trailers from scratch, flat and tilt bed equipment haulers. Now I just work in my home shop.

I’m not disappointed and I’m not here to prove anyone wrong, I just want to make sure people stay safe. If someone that doesn’t know any better goes and puts 2,000lb bags on their 1/2 ton truck thinking they now have a truck equal to a 1-ton SRW they will be sorely mistaken and could end up injuring or killing people.

Unless the truck is recertified after making the mods it will be overweight if GVWR is exceeded.

Buy the right truck for the job, buy the right trailer for your truck, but don’t go making changes to an under-spec truck to try and make it work. That’s just a generally bad idea.

[polishdon]

This is why I went with a "bumper pull" toy hauler. Although I'm pretty sure my 2500HD will pull anything, the pin weight of most 5th wheel toy haulers would have put me over the limits of my truck.