Ultra Lite TT Suggestions

[RooVader]

I have the 3.55 and regular tow package and yes they come with the brake controller. There was very little difference in max tow versus my unit but obviously it is great to get it if you can as the payload sticker is higher.

I am not aware of anything outside of the mirrors and the gearing that are different than my fx4 which has the same leaf spring setup as max tow.

I am downsizing to a hybrid but it has less to do with any limitations of the f150 and more about my desire to have something shorter. Sometimes it is hard to know exactly what you want until you own one and figure out which features are important.


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[itat]

Have a look at the Rockwood 2702SS and 2702WS floorplans. Your teenage daughters will be happier in the bigger bunk beds.

Rockwood Ultra Lite Travel Trailers by Forest River RV

[AlanC]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

Be VERY careful in what you believe that these people tell you. It has been proven many times on the F150Ecoboost site that they rarely know what they are selling or just plain lie to sell the truck.

I completely agree. I'm amazed at how much more I seem to know about their products than they do.

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

The best way is to enter your VIN in this site. Then click the arrow that says "Minor Features" for the real deal on your truck. You would be amazed how many stealerships told owners they have Max Tow when they really have the lesser package.

FordEtis home page

Awesome! Thanks so much for this!

You're right, you can get the VIN for nearly any vehicle for sale nowadays. Even used vehicle ads are starting to list the VIN so you can easily run a Carfax on them.

Great info here!

[AlanC]

Originally Posted by itat

Have a look at the Rockwood 2702SS and 2702WS floorplans. Your teenage daughters will be happier in the bigger bunk beds.

We're looking at the 2702WS as it seems to meet our needs really well. My wife is really sold on the Rockwood construction.

I'm concerned about the length. At just over 32' it seems like it is going to be pretty long.

I'm actually rethinking the whole F-150 at this point and wondering if should just go with the F-250 turbo-diesel and be done with it. At 14000 lbs. trailer tow rating and at least 3000 lbs. payload I think my towing worries would be over. Also the 860 lb.-ft. of torque is more than double what the 3.5 Ecoboost has.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by AlanC

We haven't actually bought the truck yet.

We're looking at a 2015 F-150 Supercrew 4x4 5.5' with the 3.5 Ecoboost and with 3.55 gears and the regular towing package.

Ford won't put 3.73s in the particular trim combination we want, so I'm thinking I might do some aftermarket 4.10s.

If I want the Max Towing Package I would likely have to order it.

From Ford's towing guide, it looks like the main difference between the Max Tow (53C) and the regular towing package (53A) is:

• Upgraded rear axle
• Upgraded rear bumper
• Trailer brake controller

The truck we're looking at has the integrated brake controller.

I'm certainly open to the idea of a 5th wheel, but the ones I'm seeing on the Forest River web site are all over 9000 lbs GVWR. I was thinking of trying to stay under 8000 since that would give me roughly 20% safety margin. I think the tow rating on the truck we are looking at is either 10700 or 11500.

Alan,
Good Deal!

Since you have not bought the truck yet, suggest you consider just ordering it from the factory as you want it! (The power towing mirrors are a absolute JOY to have!) and the Max Trailer towing package is a absolute MUST for towing in the mountains. Factory ordering only takes 3-6 weeks (Depending on holiday schedules). If you ordered today, for example, you MIGH just get your new truck before the plant shutdown for Memorial Day (they shut down Fri-Tue).

Other threads in the forum have discussed after-market gear exchanges and the general consensus is it is not worth it, it will void your powertrain warranty, and will not work as smoothly as a factory installed gear.

The new 2015 (and soon 2016) F150s will easily tow 11.7K. Even with your two daughters, DW, furkid, and assorted cargo you should be fine towing the 5er I recommended to you. Remember, the pleasure of towing a 5er is because the hitch is over your rear axels.

Another question - any particular reason you want a 4x4? If you have a need for it, good deal. If all you are going to be doing is pulling your RV to developed campgrounds (i.e., you are not going to boondock) you probably do not need a 4x4. Loosing the 4x4 will boost your payload capacity.


B&B, another EcoBeast fan, has put airbags on his F150 & reports that this mod is well worth the money!

Regarding the 20% safety margin - I suspect that is already engineered in to the truck already I seriously doubt that Ford engineers would claim the F150 can tow 11,700 lbs if that was the absolute maximum the truck could pull (IMO, I suspect the truck could safely pull 12,300-500 MAX--this is the engineering overhead I figure they put into the truck.)

Here's another thought: If you, your spouse, your spouses parents or your parents ever served in the military, you can join USAA and their truck buying service makes custom orders just as inexpensive as dealership lot deals

[AlanC]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

Alan,
Another question - any particular reason you want a 4x4? If you have a need for it, good deal. If all you are going to be doing is pulling your RV to developed campgrounds (i.e., you are not going to boondock) you probably do not need a 4x4. Loosing the 4x4 will boost your payload capacity.

Yes, we live in the Rocky Mountains, so lots of snow in the Winter. 4x4 is pretty much mandatory here.

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

B&B, another EcoBeast fan, has put airbags on his F150 & reports that this mod is well worth the money!

Airbags were already on the shopping list.

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

Regarding the 20% safety margin - I suspect that is already engineered in to the truck already I seriously doubt that Ford engineers would claim the F150 can tow 11,700 lbs if that was the absolute maximum the truck could pull (IMO, I suspect the truck could safely pull 12,300-500 MAX--this is the engineering overhead I figure they put into the truck.)

Ford does recommend 2% reduction in towing capacity for every 1000 feet.

We live at 6700 feet, and some of the areas we like to camp are at 10000 feet.

This makes me think I should at least consider a 15% safety margin.

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

Here's another thought: If you, your spouse, your spouses parents or your parents ever served in the military, you can join USAA and their truck buying service makes custom orders just as inexpensive as dealership lot deals

Good to know! My dad was in the Navy, so I'll look into it!

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by AlanC

We're looking at the 2702WS as it seems to meet our needs really well. My wife is really sold on the Rockwood construction.

I'm concerned about the length. At just over 32' it seems like it is going to be pretty long.

I'm actually rethinking the whole F-150 at this point and wondering if should just go with the F-250 turbo-diesel and be done with it. At 14000 lbs. trailer tow rating and at least 3000 lbs. payload I think my towing worries would be over. Also the 860 lb.-ft. of torque is more than double what the 3.5 Ecoboost has.

HAHA!! *NOW* you are thinking! I have started thinking the same way myself the past month as DW ogled the new Cedar Creeks at the RV show we went to

There is a saying on the forums: By your new truck for your NEXT 5er!

And if you get a 250, then you absolutely CAN tow just about anything out there...for instance:

Wildwood Heritage Glen Fifth Wheels / Travel Trailers by Forest River RV

Heck, if you are thinking F250, why not just *do it* and get a 1 ton!?

(Not to start truck wars here, but if you are going to get a turbo diesel, you might want to take a look at a Dodge)

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by AlanC

Yes, we live in the Rocky Mountains, so lots of snow in the Winter. 4x4 is pretty much mandatory here.



Airbags were already on the shopping list.



Ford does recommend 2% reduction in towing capacity for every 1000 feet.

We live at 6700 feet, and some of the areas we like to camp are at 10000 feet.

This makes me think I should at least consider a 15% safety margin.



Good to know! My dad was in the Navy, so I'll look into it!

Not that I would/could blame anyone for moving up to 3/4 ton, but with my AirLift LoadLifter 5000 Ultimates the eco does just find. There are LOTS of guys pulling 30+ foot travel trailers on the F150Ecoboost site.

The only reservation to the "Bigger is better" idea for trailer and/or truck is that many of the parks only have smaller spots if you want to get real outdoorsy. I limited my search to 29' expanded because of that.

As for the altitude thing, I live in Colorado Springs, and have no issues and have had mine up and over Monarch Pass (11K) several times. We camped outside of Leadville (10K) and at Taylor Park and near Gunnison (don't remember the elevation of either) without issue. Don't worry too much about the power loss because the twin turbos take care of the thin air and the 6 speed trans more than handles the hills.

As for USAA (which I do use for some things), I always get better rates from Penfed credit union.

[AlanC]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

Not that I would/could blame anyone for moving up to 3/4 ton, but with my AirLift LoadLifter 5000 Ultimates the eco does just find. There are LOTS of guys pulling 30+ foot travel trailers on the F150Ecoboost site.

What's the weight specs on your trailer?

[dustman_stx]

Just a few points:

1. If you go with the EB, you do NOT need 4.10 gears. Steep gears in the past were to cause an engine to run higher RPM and therefore be closer to the peak of the torque curve and to overcome issues with 3 and 4 speed trannies. The EB puts out peak torque at ~2500 and has a six speed tranny. I have 3.55's and they ARE completely sufficient for towing heavy loads.

2. The EB is a forced induction engine. No need to reduce capacity at altitude. The suggestion to reduce towing capacity is for naturally aspirated engines.

3. The MaxTow is definitely NOT a necessity to tow heavy with the EB. Minimal changes that affect payload or towing capacity(really nothing to justify an increase in payload). 51 tube versus 41 radiator is really the only significant change. If there were accounts of overheating EB's hauling heavy loads- and there are lots of them out there towing heavy- I'd consider that important, but it's not the case. You do get some other goodies like tow mirrors and IBC- even though it's included in many other packages. Only other structural change is in rear spring code- and even that is the same on non Maxtow trucks with 20" wheels. I predict I'll be challenged on this statement, but I've proven the point in countless other EB discussions here on the forums using Ford documentation. This statement at least holds true on the 13 and 14 models. I'd confirm for 15 models.

With this being said, if you can afford the up front cost and additional maintenance on the F250 or 350 PSD, then go for it. It will ride rougher, particularly unloaded, though. One of my other gripes with the new PSD (had a 2011 model) is that the new gen of diesels don't particularly like lots of short trips that don't allow you to reach full operating temp.

[madmaxmutt]

It is a couple year old Surveyor 235RKS. I normally travel with it at about 6,500lbs and TW is near 850lbs. loaded. GVWR is 7,474lbs. Mostly bought it because of it's size, large front bunks and the Rear King Slide (RKS)

[AlanC]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

1. If you go with the EB, you do NOT need 4.10 gears. Steep gears in the past were to cause an engine to run higher RPM and therefore be closer to the peak of the torque curve and to overcome issues with 3 and 4 speed trannies. The EB puts out peak torque at ~2500 and has a six speed tranny. I have 3.55's and they ARE completely sufficient for towing heavy loads.

Good to know. Makes perfect sense!

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

2. The EB is a forced induction engine. No need to reduce capacity at altitude. The suggestion to reduce towing capacity is for naturally aspirated engines.

OK, seems logical, but I still thing it makes sense to factor in some amount of safety margin, right?

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

3. The MaxTow is definitely NOT a necessity to tow heavy with the EB.

Looking at this Ford document:

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...0_r1_Jan12.pdf

It doesn't seem like the Max Tow even has an upgraded radiator on the 2015.

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

With this being said, if you can afford the up front cost and additional maintenance on the F250 or 350 PSD, then go for it.

Leaning back towards the F-150 EB at this point and picking a trailer that it can tow well.

Thanks everyone for the information and help!

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Just a few points:

1. If you go with the EB, you do NOT need 4.10 gears. Steep gears in the past were to cause an engine to run higher RPM and therefore be closer to the peak of the torque curve and to overcome issues with 3 and 4 speed trannies. The EB puts out peak torque at ~2500 and has a six speed tranny. I have 3.55's and they ARE completely sufficient for towing heavy loads.

2. The EB is a forced induction engine. No need to reduce capacity at altitude. The suggestion to reduce towing capacity is for naturally aspirated engines.

3. The MaxTow is definitely NOT a necessity to tow heavy with the EB. Minimal changes that affect payload or towing capacity(really nothing to justify an increase in payload). 51 tube versus 41 radiator is really the only significant change. If there were accounts of overheating EB's hauling heavy loads- and there are lots of them out there towing heavy- I'd consider that important, but it's not the case. You do get some other goodies like tow mirrors and IBC- even though it's included in many other packages. Only other structural change is in rear spring code- and even that is the same on non Maxtow trucks with 20" wheels. I predict I'll be challenged on this statement, but I've proven the point in countless other EB discussions here on the forums using Ford documentation. This statement at least holds true on the 13 and 14 models. I'd confirm for 15 models.

With this being said, if you can afford the up front cost and additional maintenance on the F250 or 350 PSD, then go for it. It will ride rougher, particularly unloaded, though. One of my other gripes with the new PSD (had a 2011 model) is that the new gen of diesels don't particularly like lots of short trips that don't allow you to reach full operating temp.

While I agree with almost all what you wrote, I will take the challenge The key (weight bearing) differences in my NON-max tow (535 package) and a similarly equipped max-tow (AKA load leveling) are the front spring code (mine is rated 150lbs less), my hitch is rated 800lb less than a max tow and I have 3.55 ratio vs 3.73 on the older ecoboost max tow equipped trucks. I do agree that the OP (or anyone else looking to tow with a 2015) would need to do some real research on the 2015 as it (and it's packages) isn't the same as previous years.


Some light technical reading on the 2015 . . . https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAs...tes_010815.pdf

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

<SNIP>

As for USAA (which I do use for some things), I always get better rates from Penfed credit union.

Not so much for the USAA loans as for the hassle-free $100 over invoice truck buying guarantee.

[B and B]

Just came back from the first trip of the season. Fighting a 45 mph head wind the Eco just dug in and towed the 9500 lb Rockwood 5er like a champ. No increased tranny temp. I agree with Dustman my research indicated the same as he said with the only real difference is the rad and 7 lug wheels vs 6 lug. I have the King Ranch with 20 inch wheels. I don't have Air Bags or Timbrens as of yet, someday soon maybe. Throw some LT Truck Tires and you are good to go. I am at max capacity so being careful with weight is important, left firewood out of the box to haul a Generator for example. I do travel with 1/2 tank of fresh water that is behind the axle. Doesn't add to pin weight at all. We have a Nashville Trip and then Goshen in the hot summer heat, should be a test for all systems.
Again check the Ford Tech Fleet specs to make sure you know what you have before buying.

Also a dealer can add options as if it was factory installed and print a new window sticker if they like. The listing for the mirrors and brake controller sound after market in description. Check all other rating to make sure it is Max Tow. 7650 GVWR generally is.

Brian

[AlanC]

Found this discussion about 2015 Max Tow vs. Regular Tow:

Trailer tow package vs max tow package - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

From what I can tell, what the Max Tow Package (53A) adds over the Regular Tow Package (53A) is:

- Upgraded rear bumper (how does this help with towing?)
- Upgraded rear axle (seems like this is just a 3.55 axle ratio change)
- Integrated trailer brake controller

The rear bumper doesn't seem like it would affect much unless it affects how the trailer hitch is attached. I'm hoping the hitch is attached to the frame and not the bumper!

The truck I'm looking at already has the 3.55 E-locker rear axle and the Integrated Brake Controller as options, so no improvement there.

What is somewhat interesting is that the Towing Guide says that the 53A has an engine oil cooler, but the 53C package does not?

So given the options on the EB F-150 I'm looking at, the Max Tow really doesn't give me anything besides the upgraded rear bumper.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

Not so much for the USAA loans as for the hassle-free $100 over invoice truck buying guarantee.

Sorry, I should have clarified that part. I always figure if a dealer is willing to provide "hassle-free" or "haggle-free" pricing like USAA, COSTCO, Truecar, etc . . . then you are leaving some of your money on the table.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by B and B

I agree with Dustman my research indicated the same as he said with the only real difference is the rad and 7 lug wheels vs 6 lug.


Check all other rating to make sure it is Max Tow. 7650 GVWR generally is.

Brian

Be careful not to confuse max-tow with HD payload (ie 7 lug wheels) and the 2015 has only one rad for the EB.

2015 GVWRs are also different than previous years due to the Aluminum.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by AlanC

Found this discussion about 2015 Max Tow vs. Regular Tow:

Trailer tow package vs max tow package - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

From what I can tell, what the Max Tow Package (53A) adds over the Regular Tow Package (53A) is:

- Upgraded rear bumper (how does this help with towing?)
- Upgraded rear axle (seems like this is just a 3.55 axle ratio change)
- Integrated trailer brake controller

The rear bumper doesn't seem like it would affect much unless it affects how the trailer hitch is attached. I'm hoping the hitch is attached to the frame and not the bumper!

The truck I'm looking at already has the 3.55 E-locker rear axle and the Integrated Brake Controller as options, so no improvement there.

What is somewhat interesting is that the Towing Guide says that the 53A has an engine oil cooler, but the 53C package does not?

So given the options on the EB F-150 I'm looking at, the Max Tow really doesn't give me anything besides the upgraded rear bumper.

There is always a lot of debate on the "upgraded rear bumper". At least for the 2011-2014 versions the hitch uses the same parts for "HEAVY DUTY TOWING" (AKA 535) and "LOAD LEVELING TOWING" (AKA Max Tow). I have never taken the time to look up the bumper part numbers, though. The bumper and hitch do connect, so there could be some differences other than the sticker.

I would put a 2015 non-max-tow VIN into etis and see if it says there is an oil cooler. Because the documents cover all the engines, there is often confusing wording. I think it is likely an oversight in the marketing documentation related specifically to the 3.5 EB, but you should verify.


The GVWR should be different on a Max Tow and a base model. As that will effect your payload, I would seriously check it out. Given the option of a do over on my purchase, it might not be required, but I would opt for max tow.


Although I am a member of the forum you used above, I lean towards F150ecoboost.net to weed out the "should've bought a V8" folks and there are distinct differences in the towing capabilities of the Ecoboost.

[madmaxmutt]

One more thought that I have not verified, but . . . I wonder if there are add on tow mirrors for the 2015 at this point? I know it seemed to take forever to find aftermarket replacement tow mirrors that had all the options for my 2013. I still don't think the power telescope versions can be had in other than actual Ford parts.