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Old 04-21-2015, 02:41 PM   #31
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It is a couple year old Surveyor 235RKS. I normally travel with it at about 6,500lbs and TW is near 850lbs. loaded. GVWR is 7,474lbs. Mostly bought it because of it's size, large front bunks and the Rear King Slide (RKS)
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:47 PM   #32
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1. If you go with the EB, you do NOT need 4.10 gears. Steep gears in the past were to cause an engine to run higher RPM and therefore be closer to the peak of the torque curve and to overcome issues with 3 and 4 speed trannies. The EB puts out peak torque at ~2500 and has a six speed tranny. I have 3.55's and they ARE completely sufficient for towing heavy loads.
Good to know. Makes perfect sense!

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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
2. The EB is a forced induction engine. No need to reduce capacity at altitude. The suggestion to reduce towing capacity is for naturally aspirated engines.
OK, seems logical, but I still thing it makes sense to factor in some amount of safety margin, right?

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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
3. The MaxTow is definitely NOT a necessity to tow heavy with the EB.
Looking at this Ford document:

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...0_r1_Jan12.pdf

It doesn't seem like the Max Tow even has an upgraded radiator on the 2015.

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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
With this being said, if you can afford the up front cost and additional maintenance on the F250 or 350 PSD, then go for it.
Leaning back towards the F-150 EB at this point and picking a trailer that it can tow well.

Thanks everyone for the information and help!
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #33
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Just a few points:

1. If you go with the EB, you do NOT need 4.10 gears. Steep gears in the past were to cause an engine to run higher RPM and therefore be closer to the peak of the torque curve and to overcome issues with 3 and 4 speed trannies. The EB puts out peak torque at ~2500 and has a six speed tranny. I have 3.55's and they ARE completely sufficient for towing heavy loads.

2. The EB is a forced induction engine. No need to reduce capacity at altitude. The suggestion to reduce towing capacity is for naturally aspirated engines.

3. The MaxTow is definitely NOT a necessity to tow heavy with the EB. Minimal changes that affect payload or towing capacity(really nothing to justify an increase in payload). 51 tube versus 41 radiator is really the only significant change. If there were accounts of overheating EB's hauling heavy loads- and there are lots of them out there towing heavy- I'd consider that important, but it's not the case. You do get some other goodies like tow mirrors and IBC- even though it's included in many other packages. Only other structural change is in rear spring code- and even that is the same on non Maxtow trucks with 20" wheels. I predict I'll be challenged on this statement, but I've proven the point in countless other EB discussions here on the forums using Ford documentation. This statement at least holds true on the 13 and 14 models. I'd confirm for 15 models.

With this being said, if you can afford the up front cost and additional maintenance on the F250 or 350 PSD, then go for it. It will ride rougher, particularly unloaded, though. One of my other gripes with the new PSD (had a 2011 model) is that the new gen of diesels don't particularly like lots of short trips that don't allow you to reach full operating temp.
While I agree with almost all what you wrote, I will take the challenge The key (weight bearing) differences in my NON-max tow (535 package) and a similarly equipped max-tow (AKA load leveling) are the front spring code (mine is rated 150lbs less), my hitch is rated 800lb less than a max tow and I have 3.55 ratio vs 3.73 on the older ecoboost max tow equipped trucks. I do agree that the OP (or anyone else looking to tow with a 2015) would need to do some real research on the 2015 as it (and it's packages) isn't the same as previous years.


Some light technical reading on the 2015 . . . https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAs...tes_010815.pdf
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #34
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<SNIP>

As for USAA (which I do use for some things), I always get better rates from Penfed credit union.
Not so much for the USAA loans as for the hassle-free $100 over invoice truck buying guarantee.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:55 PM   #35
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Just came back from the first trip of the season. Fighting a 45 mph head wind the Eco just dug in and towed the 9500 lb Rockwood 5er like a champ. No increased tranny temp. I agree with Dustman my research indicated the same as he said with the only real difference is the rad and 7 lug wheels vs 6 lug. I have the King Ranch with 20 inch wheels. I don't have Air Bags or Timbrens as of yet, someday soon maybe. Throw some LT Truck Tires and you are good to go. I am at max capacity so being careful with weight is important, left firewood out of the box to haul a Generator for example. I do travel with 1/2 tank of fresh water that is behind the axle. Doesn't add to pin weight at all. We have a Nashville Trip and then Goshen in the hot summer heat, should be a test for all systems.
Again check the Ford Tech Fleet specs to make sure you know what you have before buying.

Also a dealer can add options as if it was factory installed and print a new window sticker if they like. The listing for the mirrors and brake controller sound after market in description. Check all other rating to make sure it is Max Tow. 7650 GVWR generally is.

Brian
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:02 PM   #36
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Found this discussion about 2015 Max Tow vs. Regular Tow:

Trailer tow package vs max tow package - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

From what I can tell, what the Max Tow Package (53A) adds over the Regular Tow Package (53A) is:

- Upgraded rear bumper (how does this help with towing?)
- Upgraded rear axle (seems like this is just a 3.55 axle ratio change)
- Integrated trailer brake controller

The rear bumper doesn't seem like it would affect much unless it affects how the trailer hitch is attached. I'm hoping the hitch is attached to the frame and not the bumper!

The truck I'm looking at already has the 3.55 E-locker rear axle and the Integrated Brake Controller as options, so no improvement there.

What is somewhat interesting is that the Towing Guide says that the 53A has an engine oil cooler, but the 53C package does not?

So given the options on the EB F-150 I'm looking at, the Max Tow really doesn't give me anything besides the upgraded rear bumper.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:06 PM   #37
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Not so much for the USAA loans as for the hassle-free $100 over invoice truck buying guarantee.
Sorry, I should have clarified that part. I always figure if a dealer is willing to provide "hassle-free" or "haggle-free" pricing like USAA, COSTCO, Truecar, etc . . . then you are leaving some of your money on the table.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:10 PM   #38
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I agree with Dustman my research indicated the same as he said with the only real difference is the rad and 7 lug wheels vs 6 lug.


Check all other rating to make sure it is Max Tow. 7650 GVWR generally is.

Brian
Be careful not to confuse max-tow with HD payload (ie 7 lug wheels) and the 2015 has only one rad for the EB.

2015 GVWRs are also different than previous years due to the Aluminum.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:17 PM   #39
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Found this discussion about 2015 Max Tow vs. Regular Tow:

Trailer tow package vs max tow package - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

From what I can tell, what the Max Tow Package (53A) adds over the Regular Tow Package (53A) is:

- Upgraded rear bumper (how does this help with towing?)
- Upgraded rear axle (seems like this is just a 3.55 axle ratio change)
- Integrated trailer brake controller

The rear bumper doesn't seem like it would affect much unless it affects how the trailer hitch is attached. I'm hoping the hitch is attached to the frame and not the bumper!

The truck I'm looking at already has the 3.55 E-locker rear axle and the Integrated Brake Controller as options, so no improvement there.

What is somewhat interesting is that the Towing Guide says that the 53A has an engine oil cooler, but the 53C package does not?

So given the options on the EB F-150 I'm looking at, the Max Tow really doesn't give me anything besides the upgraded rear bumper.
There is always a lot of debate on the "upgraded rear bumper". At least for the 2011-2014 versions the hitch uses the same parts for "HEAVY DUTY TOWING" (AKA 535) and "LOAD LEVELING TOWING" (AKA Max Tow). I have never taken the time to look up the bumper part numbers, though. The bumper and hitch do connect, so there could be some differences other than the sticker.

I would put a 2015 non-max-tow VIN into etis and see if it says there is an oil cooler. Because the documents cover all the engines, there is often confusing wording. I think it is likely an oversight in the marketing documentation related specifically to the 3.5 EB, but you should verify.


The GVWR should be different on a Max Tow and a base model. As that will effect your payload, I would seriously check it out. Given the option of a do over on my purchase, it might not be required, but I would opt for max tow.


Although I am a member of the forum you used above, I lean towards F150ecoboost.net to weed out the "should've bought a V8" folks and there are distinct differences in the towing capabilities of the Ecoboost.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:37 PM   #40
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One more thought that I have not verified, but . . . I wonder if there are add on tow mirrors for the 2015 at this point? I know it seemed to take forever to find aftermarket replacement tow mirrors that had all the options for my 2013. I still don't think the power telescope versions can be had in other than actual Ford parts.
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