Why does quality vary so much?

rohlingerrv · 11-12-2010, 09:46 PM

I notice some posters really bashing their camper. They seem to have multiple problems with just about every aspect of their camper. I can understand maybe having trouble with a certain area but the whole camper? I have not had any problem with my 2011 5th in the first year of use. Maybe the trouble some campers were made on Friday?

camprat · 11-12-2010, 10:43 PM

Well I notice the same thing too and some is justify. I have had my 2010 wildcat for a over a year now, with no real problems. Some of the problem maybe from not taking a good look at the trailer when you pick it up. I take care of the small problem & don't sweat it, you are going to have that with any rig. I think there will all way be that FRIDAY RIG & that one who can't be pleased .

granite · 11-12-2010, 10:58 PM

I bought a fiver in 08 and again this year. I saw a definite improvement in fit and finish, and fewer problems. Maybe Warren Buffett is cracking the whip?

08flagvlite · 11-12-2010, 11:29 PM

My 08 V lite 30 footer trailer has been very good to us, 3 years now. Sure, a few fuses have blown, and one Concertone went out, but other than that, it's been great. The few construction issues- hanging door track came loose, and the under bed plywood came loose from the bedframe(nails into an aluminum frame?) I fixed myself, and made it better than before. I try to do that with every fix and modification. Randy

nailit · 11-13-2010, 06:41 AM

Same here, we have a '09 Wolf Pack 285 and the only issue was when the fuel transfer pump went out and that was covered by the extended warranty. But other than the pump going out, our 5er has been great. There's the usual loose screw here and there, but as I fix it, I make better and stronger.

We had pack rats get into the underbelly this past summer, which cancelled our annual Labor Day camping trip because of the damage that the little gritters did, but I'm hoping I solved that issue with traps.

SaskCampers · 11-13-2010, 07:16 AM

I know this is an RV forum and I am not going to go on a rant here but to be honest, there are bad products from just about every sector of manufacturing and I cannot say why. For example many many people love their Dodge trucks but we bought a brand new 2008 Ram 2500 Laramie Megacab in 08 ( the only things it doesn't have is a sun roof, nav and rear seat DVD) this truck in the first 27 months and 100,000km has been in the shop 45 times.. Yes averaging almost 2 trips a month for everything from windshild wiper motors to well exhaust manifolds. So you can see it isn't just FR that has bad days.

rockwood06 · 11-13-2010, 07:38 AM

Small things are caught with in the first year and are repair under warrenty, and some times you can see them prior to delievery, however as you travel around pulling your camper and depending how much you travel things start to get loose from the twisting of the rig. Inspection of the rig prior to buying does not workall the time.

Examble: I bought a 2006 Rockwood 8314ss new, at the time of pick up from the dealer all was perfect the camper was in my driveway for 8 days now the camper camper came right to the house and no where else we were loading it up for our first trip. I came home from work and noticed a small bubble on the extrior wall just in front of the front door, from the time i called the dealer about it to the time they got back to me with and answer the bubble had grown 8" this was two days after. To make a long story short i was in a position to make the dealer give me another brand new rig.

The rig i have now is the same model and two weeks after the warrenty was up i started with bubbles on the intrior walls and the camper has been going down hill ever since. So you may say to yourself why don't i trade it in, well the fact is i paid $21,000 for this rig and for the same floor plan it would cost around $30,000 for a 2011....So why buy new, they are still built the same way, and no improvement....It's just an indication of bad luck on my part.

As far as the high end rigs, they have there problems as well. I was up set over all of this, but i learned a lesson. My firat camper was back in 2000 it was a Fleetwood and for the 5 years i had it,i never had any problems so we moved up in the world an bought a Rockwood ....and that is the end of that story my luck had changed.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.........you don't know whats in it til you open it.

youroo · 11-13-2010, 07:56 AM

I am with Rockwood 06 ,100%! Youroo!!

rockwood06 · 11-13-2010, 08:06 AM

One other thing i would like to point out, this makes it hard for newbies, when they get into RVing and buy there first rig they have no clue what to look for and if they get a bad rig this will put a bad taste in there mouth for camping.

This forum is a great place to learn, just read the post and ask question, in my mine this the best way to go. It's not right to send your money on something that breaks down in a short priod of time. It is what it is and unfortunately lessons are learn by experience. I have been camping for 10 years now and i still learn from the members here.

grhodes50 · 11-13-2010, 08:43 AM

Sometimes those who complain, and I have been one, about small issues, have so many at one time, continuously, that in itself becomes a large problem. When you add in problems like delamination due to a bad batch of glue used during manufacturing you're then, more or less, sitting there helplessly watching your tt deteriorate in front of your eyes. Now throw in some more of those small issues and each one becomes just another issue to deal with when you already have more than you can handle. Most of these problems are not there or at least don't show themselves during your intial PDI.
I was left watching mine fall apart in front of me. FR did extend my warranty a year and they did fix everything under warranty, but the problems continued with no end in sight and I was told, "Don't worry, we'll continue to fix your trailer until the warranty expires". That just didn't give me too much peace of mind. Not enough to be able to relax and enjoy the trailer. While packing for trips I was always checking what tools I took, trying to be prepared for what problems I would run into. While camping I was always preocupied checking things so I could catch problems before they got too big. So much for rest and relaxation and enjoying time with your family.
I guess my point to all of this is, while there may be a lot of complaints on this forum, I realize most are made by only a few of us. Most of you look at your tt's and how well they perform and how well things are holding up and you naturally think, at least in the back of your mind, they must not be taking very good care of their tt or they didn't inspect it very well when they picked it up. While that may be true in some cases, there are those of us, like rockwood06 and myself, who do take pride in what we own and do the best we can to keep it up. You eventually reach the point where it's just too much and/or too big of a problem for us to handle. At $25k it becomes a pretty expensive headache.
Now as to the OP's question, IMHO every manufactuer can and will produce a lemon. The degree in which quality assurance is performed will determine as to how many lemons get produced.

tncruiser · 11-13-2010, 10:48 AM

sometimes its just expectations
brianj

great white · 11-13-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tncruiser

sometimes its just expectations
brianj

Oh, I don't know.....I would think something working right the first time and at least a year of no issues when spending 30-40,000 is a perfectly acceptable "expection"...

bob34787 · 11-13-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by great white

Oh, I don't know.....I would think something working right the first time and at least a year of no issues when spending 30-40,000 is a perfectly acceptable "expection"...

why should you be so lucky? Mine was in the 70-80,000 range and its quality really sucks, spent more time being fixed the 1st 3 months than I had it. Paid for 3 months of storage before it ever went there.

buzzards27 · 11-13-2010, 06:23 PM

rockwood, you think that they sorta build these messed up rigs for newbies? You know, put the inexperienced and/or new workers on a "training rig". Maybe that is their master plan, they'll build quality for the the knowledgeable and experienced buyer knowing they can dump poorly built ones on newbies...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockwood06

One other thing i would like to point out, this makes it hard for newbies, when they get into RVing and buy there first rig they have no clue what to look for and if they get a bad rig this will put a bad taste in there mouth for camping.

This forum is a great place to learn, just read the post and ask question, in my mine this the best way to go. It's not right to send your money on something that breaks down in a short priod of time. It is what it is and unfortunately lessons are learn by experience. I have been camping for 10 years now and i still learn from the members here.

rockwood06 · 11-13-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzards27

rockwood, you think that they sorta build these messed up rigs for newbies? You know, put the inexperienced and/or new workers on a "training rig". Maybe that is their master plan, they'll build quality for the the knowledgeable and experienced buyer knowing they can dump poorly built ones on newbies...

When the manufacture makes and sells the rigs to the dealer, they don't know who is buying and they don't care, when the dealer sells a camper again they don't care who is buying.
Let me put it to you this way, I had a great experince with my first camper of 5 years, (Fleetwood) so we bought the Rockwood after that. We were having fun with camping and thought we would like something nicer. Now if i would have bought the Rockwood first and had the problems i have now i would be done with RV camping, this would have put me in a position like a newbie.

So you may want to ask the newbies on this forum " how they would feel if the first camper they bought was falling apart, would they go out and buy another one and take a chance or say the h@ll with it. It's all about $$$$$.

I am happy to see that there are members that have little or no problems , but it is the major things that i am having problems with, perfection or quality is not in the English language anymore, it cost too much.

buzzards27 · 11-14-2010, 07:21 AM

I am not suggesting that FR intentionally builds defective rigs in general or rigs just for newbies. What I meant is that a more sophisticated buyer knows what to look for and will past on a defective rigs while a newbie is going to be overwhelmed by the process and overlook many things a experienced buyer would reject. FR knows that dynamic takes place on the dealer's lot and that every rig they make doesn't have to have the best build team and the best inspectors.

Seems there is a buyer for just about everything made and sooner or later someone will buy anything if the price is right. My guess is it is wise to avoid that specially priced new rig at the back of the dealers' lot, it is likely that the dealer is having trouble finding the right unsophisticated newbie buyer.

rockwood06 · 11-14-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzards27

I am not suggesting that FR intentionally builds defective rigs in general or rigs just for newbies. What I meant is that a more sophisticated buyer knows what to look for and will past on a defective rigs while a newbie is going to be overwhelmed by the process and overlook many things a experienced buyer would reject. FR knows that dynamic takes place on the dealer's lot and that every rig they make doesn't have to have the best build team and the best inspectors.

Seems there is a buyer for just about everything made and sooner or later someone will buy anything if the price is right. My guess is it is wise to avoid that specially priced new rig at the back of the dealers' lot, it is likely that the dealer is having trouble finding the right unsophisticated newbie buyer.

I am sorry i didn't think you ment anything negitive, maybe it was the way i read your reply, but i understand what you are saying.

The statement you made is correct about not having the best team and the best inspectors, this is overhead and if Forestriver can get them cheap, then the quality is just as equal and this is where the problems begins.

Borwick · 11-14-2010, 11:53 AM

We bought our first TT September 2009, and had low expectations. I lurked on this and a few other forums to get an idea of what to look for on the lots. It took a couple of weekends to walk through, poke and wiggle things inside the candidates, being wary of stories I found.

The purpose of the TT was mostly for weekend trips, and maybe a couple of week long tours, so we were in the budget category. $20k max.

I noticed things like interior doors not framed correctly, cabinet doors and drawers not centered, or tracking straight. Didn't seem to matter the brand or dealer. In the few $40k+ units we looked at, I was impressed with much better attention to detail, quality of cabinets and furniture. However, I could still see flaws in manufacturing. Better parts and design, same worker bees.

I like to tinker, so before taking delivery, my first purchase included a modest tool box, repair kit with electrical goodies, plumbing parts and a big roll of duct tape.

After the drive home, the micro didn't light up (clock panel), the bed struts (storage) both tore loose from the wood platform, the "Concertone" unit buzzed like a alarm clock, and one of the kitchen drawers came apart (at the staples). Out of 3 identical units, this passed my inspection before signing the paperwork, but alas things got by me.

I removed the Micro myself, and it was replaced. Bad Micro; (Not FR's fault). Thought about having the dealer fix or replace the Concertone, but they wanted it left installed to troubleshoot it. I was trying to avoid towing it back the 50 miles, so I decided I'd get a Jensen and install it myself.

Every other thing that's happened I fixed myself, and I enjoy the challenge of making things "better" despite design flaws. After a year, I've rebuilt every drawer with screws, re-hung cabinet doors, rewired a few runs, added some convenience switches to turn off tv and signal booster current (at bedtime), LED lighting, custom volt/amp display, low voltage cutoff, new Jensen unit, 12v power outlets at logical locations. Also added a knife valve on the fresh tank drain, fixed some crossed tank sensor wires, and rebuilt a pantry where the weight of some food totally ripped the bottom of the cabinet out.

All in all, I consider myself lucky that nothing major has gone wrong, requiring a trip to the dealer. I would say based on my "low" expectations, I'm happy overall.

The difference in this industry versus the auto trade are safety regulations, 3 to 4 year warranty exposure, and a vast amount of consumer info and press. In the RV trade, I've never heard of a stand-out quality leader, like Toyota (used to be). It's taken US automakers decades to turn around their quality control after getting beat up by the competition. Anyone remember the movie "Gung Ho" with Michael Keaton? Zero Defect was the motto.

Reminds me of my first Suburban (purchased new). I turned on the windshield wipers for the first time, and one of them came flying off (arm and all) and just missed another car at the signal. Good thing I didn't skewer anyone.
This was in the days when GM still didn't care about quality.

grhodes50 · 11-14-2010, 01:12 PM

Dave, great attitude, my hat's off to you. Unfortunately you're a minority first time RV buyer. Most, including myself, don't do their homework as well and aren't as handy as you. No doubt your efforts will payoff in years of camping enjoyment.

Your post did make think about one thing. We all talk about what we should realistically expect as far as quality of workmanship and materials are concerned when purchasing a new unit. I think we can all pretty much agree there are going to be issues. No way around it. What I think I find amazing is the acceptance of these shortfalls. We all just seem to think, oh well, that's the way it is.

I can accept a few issues with a new trailer. A few tweeks here and there, even a few issues requiring a trip or two back to the dealer. But when issues occur within a year like delamination and leaks due to poor workmanship or even the small stuff, as one poster put it, that occur consistantly throughout the trailer, I just have a hard time accepting that.

I know these things go down the road, twisting and bouncing, but aren't they made with that purpose in mind?

Dave, wish you all the best and good luck to you..

jimh · 11-29-2010, 11:26 PM

i'm afraid that i complain also. my complaints are more in an effort to point out something that has gone wrong to look for.
my first trailer was a used fleetwing 5th wheel (never saw another like it) purchaced in 92 (it was an 84). learned quiet a bit with it. then i moved up to a new 2002 cardnal and thought my troubles were over. just traded for different problems. the one that still has me trying to solve in an inexpensive way is the support for the elevated part. the floor is 2" consisting of 3/8 plywood floor with aluminum supports with stryofoam in between and felt covered luan (alum & styrofoam sandwitched between plywood and luan). with the addition of a washer/dryer (200lbs), over the years, i now have a noticable sag. feels like ur going down hill from the bed room thru the bathroom to the downstairs. forest river corrected this in later models...went to 4" supports.
i had some other anoying but not major items as well. still have the trailer and no plans to trade it.
i read the forems to see what type of problems others have had and how they solved them. that way when or if they happen to me, i am better prepaired to repair it. i also like to help trouble shoot. the more ideas the better.

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