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Old 02-12-2011, 08:31 PM   #1
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Adding more sound

Never got the chance to do this on camper number one but I want to keep this one a little longer. We like watching movies and good music and this system did work good but adding to it keeps itching at me.

The concertone we had before was not bad,no issues with it up until we parted. The ZX75 I believe it was and the new one is the same. Questions are will this plan work I have come up with to add a subwoofer to the existing sound system?

First off I want to leave the other three-way speakers as they are and just add the mono(one channel) amp to just power a 8" subwoofer. Being it is a 12v system I am thinking that any car stereo product will work fine. I have the same setup in my vehicle with a 10" so I have a fine example to go from.

First question: Does the Concertone have the RCA outputs on the back like a car stereo does?

Second question: To power the amp; I was going to find the circuit that the head unit was powered off and tap that but then figured I might increase the load too much for the circuit. So I plan on going from a spare 12v output(hopefully) on the convertor. It will be fused.

So in theory it sounds swell. Running the wire to wherever I can hide the speaker is the pondering part. I was going to mount the amp to the speaker box the woofer is in. Run power from there. Run RCA's to the Concertone from there.

Sam and Tonya
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:58 PM   #2
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I don't have an answer to all your questions because I built my system from scratch and I don't run it off of 12 volt because we always have our generator running anyway.

One thing I can maybe help with is the issues of running speaker wire. If you have the money you can use these............................................. .......
Rocketfish™ - Universal Wireless Rear Speaker Kit - RF-WHTIB

or shop around for something like it, you might be able to find something cheaper.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:10 PM   #3
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Appreciate the thought but I think we will stay with the 12v stuff. Wireless would definitely take away from half or the wire.

Sam and Tonya
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:59 PM   #4
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What are the ratings on the amp you're planning to use?
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:13 PM   #5
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I have not picked one out yet. Not gonna get crazy. 150watt tops. I have 250 on a 10" in my truck so I reasoned this that way. Thinking there might be a self powered one available to make it more simple.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:22 PM   #6
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You r power demands of the amp will dictate how big your power wire should be.

Keep in mind an amp and sub will cut down battery endurance a fair bit, depending on volume....
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:40 PM   #7
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You are right on that but I am sure any wiring kit for car stereo has the correct sizing already done. As far as the battery goes, we always go to a place with electricity. Occasionally we use it when we are packing up or at a lunch stop or something. So not enough to kill it.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:14 AM   #8
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Appreciate the thought but I think we will stay with the 12v stuff. Wireless would definitely take away from half or the wire.
Sam and Tonya
Just a word of caution for wireless - be careful of the frequency they use - as they will often have issues with other wireless services, like WiFi or cordless phones.

Many sets work in the 2.4GHz range and that is the same frequency as WiFi b & g. You will not be happy. Interference may also come from another camper close to you.

Congrats on the new unit. I also have Shamrock 19 - we love it - and am planning on adding good quality -wired- surface mount speakers to improve sound quality.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:22 AM   #9
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Just a word of caution for wireless - be careful of the frequency they use - as they will often have issues with other wireless services, like WiFi or cordless phones.

Many sets work in the 2.4GHz range and that is the same frequency as WiFi b & g. You will not be happy. Interference may also come from another camper close to you.

Congrats on the new unit. I also have Shamrock 19 - we love it - and am planning on adding good quality -wired- surface mount speakers to improve sound quality.
Good point! I guess I never really thought much about it because in the 3 years we have had ours we have never had any problems. With 2 kids our camper is full of other "wireless" devices.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:47 AM   #10
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I am definitely go with what I know first by just keeping it simple. Just need to plan a way to get the RCA's from the amp to the head unit. Power to the amp from convertor. That is IF the concertone has output jacks for this.

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Old 02-15-2011, 09:54 AM   #11
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Sam,

The ZX75 has a low level output on the back of the unit that you can use to power an amplifier for a sub.

Alternatively, there is a Powered Output directly from the ZX75 that could drive a 4ohm sub such as: Concertone® SW-Box4 Subwoofer
You could hide this in a wall or ceiling and use this to cover it: Concertone® SW-GRILL3 Speaker Grill

If you use an amplifier, USE an appropriate gauge (size) power AND ground wire (properly fused) and connect to a good source (not the power to the radio). Make sure ALL components are properly grounded and cables properly run to ensure no noise.

Have fun!
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:21 AM   #12
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If the current rating of the fuse is lets say 10 amps and the head unit draws 3 amps and the new subwoofer application draws 3 amp then you should be fine on the 12 V end of things using the head unit's power supply leads. I am not sure the current draw of the head unit and was just using this is an example.

If you need to install a separate wire then use at least a 14 to 16 guage wire. The more thecurrent draw and the longer the run on the wire from the source to amp the heavier the guage the wire you want if you are putting a separate power line to the fuse panel.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:47 AM   #13
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thanks Bob. Looks like a much easier way to do the project,no power to run. I saw those +,- outputs in my users manual for my old ZX75. I was wondering how much power exactly it is outputting. The sub you listed was 75 watts RMS. So somewhere in that range I can look to find something or I can buy this one.

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Old 02-15-2011, 12:13 PM   #14
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Samsco,
The amplifier's power rating, say 75 watts may not tell you alot about about the current draw in amps from the power wires. You need to know how many amps the amplifier draws to make the sound not the output of the amplifier to drive the speakers. If the audio system is on a 10 amp circuit and the two devices draw less than 10 amps at peak power, you should be fine tapping into the head units power supply.

You could simply change the 10 amp fuse to a 20 amp and be done with it and draw the power from the head unit source, but the wire used to wire the circuit make get a little warm if the current draw exceeds the oem wire current rating. I would suggest adding a seperate circuit for the sub amp if this the case....
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #15
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smokey,

I understand what you are saying about the load on one particular circuit. I am a lighting technician, work out of a bucket truck all day. The way it is described is that the powered output from the head unit Bob described would not need to be amplified as the unit is already doing that it says. The speaker unit he recommended is un-powered it looks. First he said that there is the outputs to add an amp to the signal as well. The second method is the one I am trying to be working with first. So in a sense the only gauging of wire would be the speaker wire from the head unit to the speaker.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #16
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Sorry about the discussion there on current and load...I vote do what Bob says...I would use the low level out....

Monster Cable makes a really nice home theater cable that is easily pulled ... it has a nice round jacket and it is smooth...
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:32 AM   #17
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I guess the point is you could go either way.

Simplicity (and least cost) would be to use he amp IN the unit, but of course you are limited in the power of the radio. If you determine this is not loud enough for you, then add an amp.

I would STILL RECOMMEND QUITE STRONGLY that you do NOT use the radio power supply wire and ABSOLUTELY DO NOT increase the fuse size on ANY CIRCUIT EVER! Doing so may cause the wire not only to heat up, but to melt and then short out and cause a FIRE! This is true for ANY circuit not just the radio circuit.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:56 PM   #18
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Hey Guys,

I tried adding amplification to the existing 8" concertone sub in my Rockwood.

Just a simple 50 watt amp with built in adjustable crossover. I pulled a #10 wire from the battery to the amp location in the cabinet that houses the sub.

It Will Not Work. The 12v system will not handle the power drain. The 12v converter is not high enough amperage to handle the current draw. Everytime the bass hit, the lights in the trailer dimmed. So I added a 1farad Cap to the power line to try and smooth out the power drain. It worked for a few minutes, but the lights kept getting dimmer and dimmer.

Yes, I checked the battery. It is a 3 mth old Interstate.

My solution was to remove the Concertone sub, install a high level to low level converter on the exisiting speaker leads and install a small home theater sub, a Velodyne Impact Mini Velodyne . It fit in the existing cabinet, and WOW what a sound difference. And since it runs on 110v, no problem with the 12v.

Only down side is it does not work without shore power.

Your mileage my vary, but it worked for me.

I will try and take some pics soon......
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:33 PM   #19
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Like the idea of the simple install both ways. Unfortunately the first way did not work for you. I was thinking of going off a new 12v circuit from the converter intead of the battery. Wonder if it would still cause the same symptom?

The house speaker idea is ideal for us actually. We have yet to go without hookups so the 120v thing is really not an issue. Where did you find the converter for the speaker wires?

Sam and Tonya
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:05 PM   #20
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At least I am glad it is NOT my issue! :-)
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