Electric Heat Without Furnace

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dan

OK, I guess 2 is “many”. You win.

Those two photos were handy, which is why I only posted those.

I have many more photos of places I stayed last year during my six months full-timing that show the power pedestals with power meters on them.

I'll post them all if you'd like!

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Exactly! But in both cases, 4100 BTU's/hr will be put into the "space."



Incorrect. Your statement would be true if you were paying the same price for a BTU of electricity and a BTU of LP gas. Unfortunately, the price/BTU isn't the same. Electric costs more, for a slew of reasons.

It's why most people don't want to heat their homes with electric if they can help it.

Not incorrect if the furnace is only 50% efficient. if the furnace is 80% then propane but with a loss of 50% then the electric will calculate out cheaper

Propane contains 91,547 Btu per gallon. A typical furnace will convert about 85% of that to heat, which means that 1 gallon of propane provides about as much heat as 23 kilowatt-hours of electricity. If propane costs $2.40, then electric resistance heat is cheaper if grid electricity costs 10 cents per KWH or less.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Not incorrect if the furnace is only 50% efficient. if the furnace is 80% then propane but with a loss of 50% then the electric will calculate out cheaper

Propane contains 91,547 Btu per gallon. A typical furnace will convert about 85% of that to heat, which means that 1 gallon of propane provides about as much heat as 23 kilowatt-hours of electricity. If propane costs $2.40, then electric resistance heat is cheaper if grid electricity costs 10 cents per KWH or less.

When you two are done arguing you can do it all over again with different electric costs. $.11 or $.26 per KWH and the cost of propane in what part of the country you are in has LOT to do with which is cheaper gas or electric!!:signhave fun:

[Mr Towed]

Originally Posted by nomad297

My five-year-old nephew died in his bed at his home after the safety features of a UL listed 110 volt space heater failed to operate the way they were designed to. The heater wasn’t being used improperly and it didn’t tip over — it just caught on fire.

Safety features don’t always work.

Bruce

I'm so sorry to hear this, that is an awful story. Goes to show that there are real world incidents of these things not being safe just because they seem innocuous. Would you mind sharing what type of heater it was? Oil filled / direct heating element, etc

[RandK-M]

Originally Posted by NJKris

Rand, the only difference is really the concentration or focus of the heat. 1500 W of heat in an electric convection type of heating appliance (which those with a fan are) puts out 5100 BTU's of heat. In a closed system, the 1500 W hair dryer will put out the same heat as the 1500 W space heater, and heat the air in the closed system to the same degree.

I could be wrong of course, but what I was getting at is, I don't think all heat producing devices are created equal at the same wattage. there should be a difference in the warming efficiency of say an 8'x10' room between a hair drier, infrared heater, oil filled radiator, ceramic heater, or even a heat lamp or induction coil, all measured at 1500 watt consumption.



Ray

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Not incorrect if the furnace is only 50% efficient. if the furnace is 80% then propane but with a loss of 50% then the electric will calculate out cheaper

Propane contains 91,547 Btu per gallon. A typical furnace will convert about 85% of that to heat, which means that 1 gallon of propane provides about as much heat as 23 kilowatt-hours of electricity. If propane costs $2.40, then electric resistance heat is cheaper if grid electricity costs 10 cents per KWH or less.

To repeat myself, your original point was you that stated that, “Electric space heaters are very inefficient and consequently provide little heat,” which is incorrect. An electric heater is 100% efficient. All of the 1500 watts/5100 BTU's/hr is turned into heat in your RV. Doesn't matter if it's a hair dryer or a space heater. As Cavie said, the discharge temperature will depend on the amount of air flow. But those 5100 BTU's/hr all have to go "somewhere." They don't go outside of your RV.

We can argue specific prices until the cows come home, but it just proves my other point - that you probably should have said “electric heaters are ‘not the cheapest way to heat’” (in most parts of the county)." I know in most parts of the country, gas trumps electric.

And if you could show me see an 85% gas furnace in an RV, I’d be very interested. My home furnace is 90% efficient but it needs induction and discharge fans, and stainless steel heat recovery heat exchangers to make that happen.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by Mr Towed

I'm so sorry to hear this, that is an awful story. Goes to show that there are real world incidents of these things not being safe just because they seem innocuous. Would you mind sharing what type of heater it was? Oil filled / direct heating element, etc

It was this heater — a Cadet Com-Pak electric wall heater:

https://cadetheat.com/products/wall-heaters/com-pak

I may have been wrong about the voltage.

Bruce

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

To repeat myself, your original point was you that stated that, “Electric space heaters are very inefficient and consequently provide little heat,” which is incorrect. An electric heater is 100% efficient. All of the 1500 watts/5100 BTU's/hr is turned into heat in your RV. Doesn't matter if it's a hair dryer or a space heater. As Cavie said, the discharge temperature will depend on the amount of air flow. But those 5100 BTU's/hr all have to go "somewhere." They don't go outside of your RV.

We can argue specific prices until the cows come home, but it just proves my other point - that you probably should have said “electric heaters are ‘not the cheapest way to heat’” (in most parts of the county)." I know in most parts of the country, gas trumps electric.

And if you could show me see an 85% gas furnace in an RV, I’d be very interested. My home furnace is 90% efficient but it needs induction and discharge fans, and stainless steel heat recovery heat exchangers to make that happen.

Not me . you are barking up the wrong tree / post lol never stated that . i stated nothing of the sort go back and read MY posts . if you read my posts you would see i agreed with the 50% rating of rv furnaces . so I was stating that electric would be cheaper to run in the rv then the propane . Don't blame me or jump on me for your confusion I get in enough trouble here with out people saying i posted something i did not .

[Kimber45]

who would of thought that a post about an electric space heater would bring more debate then payload and tow ratings.

[NJKris]

Isn't it great? I don't do Facebook or anything, so I need my drama fix somehow!!

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Not me . you are barking up the wrong tree / post lol never stated that . i stated nothing of the sort go back and read MY posts . if you read my posts you would see i agreed with the 50% rating of rv furnaces . so I was stating that electric would be cheaper to run in the rv then the propane . Don't blame me or jump on me for your confusion I get in enough trouble here with out people saying i posted something i did not .

Sorry I got you confused with Chuck S (you quoted me, so I got confused). My apologies.

But the bottom line (for anyone else reading this) is that an electric heater is 100% efficient and the real discussion should be about economy, no efficiency. Since the space heater is 100% efficient, the only variables are price of electricity on the space heater side and the price of LP gas and efficiency of furnace on the furnace side.

If you're not paying for electric at a campground, the electric heater with free electricity trumps LP gas at whatever price you paid for it (unless you got it for free) and the efficiency of your furnace. If you are paying for electric, then you have to figure it out using your specific values.

[Wilco]

I use an oil filled electric heater because it is noiseless. I use a small forced air electric heater in the bathroom when taking a shower. I set the programmable thermostat for my propane furnace to provide backup heat in case the electric heat is insufficient to maintain the temperature. Even when paying for electricity, I still prefer the quiet electric heater to the furnace.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Sorry I got you confused with Chuck S (you quoted me, so I got confused). My apologies.

But the bottom line (for anyone else reading this) is that an electric heater is 100% efficient and the real discussion should be about economy, no efficiency. Since the space heater is 100% efficient, the only variables are price of electricity on the space heater side and the price of LP gas and efficiency of furnace on the furnace side.

If you're not paying for electric at a campground, the electric heater with free electricity trumps LP gas at whatever price you paid for it (unless you got it for free) and the efficiency of your furnace. If you are paying for electric, then you have to figure it out using your specific values.

No problem ! i've made plenty of mistakes myself .

[Jomo]

Well I live full time in my park model.a Pelonis from Lowes. I use it all the time. Elec. Is included and propain ain't cheap. Besides it's just me and my dog Pete so we're good. Don't worry. Me a bit.

[RonGilbert]

I use one in the living area and run a heavy duty extension cord out the slide to the plug at the service point outside. Works great and saves expensive propane and sometimes I’m at a park that I pay electricity like now. I just paid my electricity after three weeks and it cost me $57. It has been in the 30’s several days.

[KnP]

I have a 2016 Rockwood Mini Lite. Used it in Colorado with a 1,500 W electric space heater, dry camped and use the campground shower facility. Used the toilet for those need to go deals and flushed it before we left. Used some RV Antifreeze in the black water to keep it liquid with the heaters on. We kept ourselves warm and used the propane heater in case the space heater could not keep up. Both worked like a charm. Kept the fan covers open to keep the moisture down without cranking the fan. At one point, was -5 and we kept ourselves warm.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Kimber45

I use space heathers for one simple reason and one simple reason only. When camping nightly im not paying the electric bill. both my units have tip over safety devices and I don't see them magically catching on fire. I would think a breaker would trip if something went wrong with the heater.

At our campground where the Cherokee 38P is permanently stationed, electricity is metered--and expensive. So is the propane if you get it from them. We have five or six 20- and 30-lb propane bottles that we refill at Costo and primarily use.

We were unable to use the furnace due to a converter issue for a 5-day visit this winter and it cost $45 for electricity to use two oil-filled radiators.

Larry

[NJKris]

KnP, so do you flush with a jug of water? I'd like to take mine out one day in freezing weather, guessing you need to keep plumbing dry, which is not a problem, I have 10g portable fresh water containers.

[Jomo]

I don't pay any extra for elec. 490 a month water sewer elec.trash & lawn care. Plus I live In Louisiana. So never gets too cold. And not only is it crawfish season. But Mardi grass starts this weekend. So peace out. Stay warm...

[tomrob1161]

The problem you have with electric space heaters is that they don't heat below the floors of the RV, your water pipes aren't being kept from freezing. They are great for keeping the interior/people warm. I camped in a Holiday Ramble travel trailer @ 29 degrees below zero using the propane furnace, the only problem I had was the the shower "P" trap dropped down below the floor and froze, no damage, but I couldn't take a shower in the morning until the "P" trap thawed.