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02-08-2016, 06:45 PM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgourlie
I won't have my trailer in front of me to be able to take a closer look at it until late spring...so I will have to revisit this then...I do have a small generator that I would like to try and get to work with this trailer, so I should add this delay. We have a family reunion late August that I might not get hookups for, so I wouldn't mind trying to get my small genset to work with my rig.
I may be looking for help later this year
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One thing you should be aware of is that you will need at least a 3000+ starting watts to start a 13500 BTU A/C on a hot day with a starting capacitor.
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02-08-2016, 09:18 PM
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#22
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljurczyk
Turbs you are correct, The stat itself is what causes the time delay of 15 sec. The schematic which you showed is correct it is done by the stat itself not anything done in the A/C unit, and being it set to On in fan mode the the fan will stay on forever and the compressor will cycle at the set point only, So the delay has nothing to do with the A/C just the stat which controls it. That is also only for a 2 zone system not a single A/C that what this whole thread was about. If I had a duel system I would still add a hard start to both compressors...... PS: the main reason for that is they do not want both fans and compressors starting at one time. That is also why you can not use a Honeywell on a duel system because of the slave stat.
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Now that makes sense Glenn!
2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"
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02-08-2016, 10:13 PM
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#23
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,233
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I'm reading that a 5-2-1 compressor saver is better than the Supco Super Boost but it's a 3 wire kit. Does anyone have experience with the 5-2-1?
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02-08-2016, 11:39 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
I'm reading that a 5-2-1 compressor saver is better than the Supco Super Boost but it's a 3 wire kit. Does anyone have experience with the 5-2-1?
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I briefly looked at it before I purchased the SPP6. I'm not that familiar with it's operation on the RV units. Most of discussion on the forum is around the SPP6. (I also called Supco). The 3 wire relay hard start is $50 vs $8 and would require splicing the common wire to run back into the relay box to the contactor. It might be the ticket however. I just didn't know enough about it.
If you look at the video
https://youtu.be/NVkCjPh7Nd8
the SPP6 knocked off 5 amps of starting load so that seems pretty decent. However, the 3 wire seems very common on the split units (house units) where the outside unit (condenser) has the contactor and starting cap all close together. If I learn it will do better than the SPP6, however, I'll certainly give it a try.
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Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
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02-09-2016, 04:42 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
I'm reading that a 5-2-1 compressor saver is better than the Supco Super Boost but it's a 3 wire kit. Does anyone have experience with the 5-2-1?
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I used to use the that kit in repair work before they came out with the new hard start that is just plug and play, It will not give you any more starting power then the 2 wire SP6. We switched to the SP6 years ago when they first came out. They do have different sizes for compressors but the SP6 is the correct size for your amperage on these small units.....
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Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC
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02-09-2016, 10:37 AM
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#26
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,233
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Thanks!
On Amazon.com, they have 2 types of SPP6 - the HS6 and PTC. Which one should I be using?
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2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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02-09-2016, 10:43 AM
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#27
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Who Dares, Wins
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,063
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Robot Check
This is the one I used.
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Pat, Jen, Heather & Sapphire, the head mouser.
2015 Chevy HD D-Max
2022 Impression 315MB
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02-09-2016, 11:19 AM
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#28
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Spp6
2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"
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02-09-2016, 01:52 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
Thanks!
On Amazon.com, they have 2 types of SPP6 - the HS6 and PTC. Which one should I be using?
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Get the SPP6 series PTC....
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Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC
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02-09-2016, 02:18 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljurczyk
Doc 73, is correct that is why I still think it's a good idea. It doesn't take much to get to 30 amps if like your water heater decides to kick on at the same time. Also a hard start is used to kick your compressor into run faster from start-up amps. It's just a capacitor that stores power to assist in the start mode, then drops out. We use to install them on any unit that would cause what is called nuisance tripping. When I was an HVAC repair man. Many, Many years ago.....Cheap mod and insurance...
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You should drag OC out to some rally. He can hold the ladder and your coffee while you climb on the roof and put caps in for the masses.. More profitable than awning poles IMHO..
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B and B
2022 Venture RV SportTrek STT 302 VRB Travel Trailer
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Louisville 5th Wheel
2015 Heartland Bighorn 5th Wheel
2013 FR Rockwood 8289WS 5th Wheel
2012 FR Rockwood 2703 SS Travel Trailer
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02-09-2016, 02:27 PM
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#31
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I go RV'ing not Camping
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lethbridge, Ab, Canada
Posts: 1,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc73
My Dometic 13.5 on a 2014 does not have a delay build in.
jgourlie, not sure the size of your geni but I can run mine on a 2000 with just the hard start. Delay might help a bit more. Just make sure you have the fridge on propane only, and the converter off or it could be too much.
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I realized the last time I tried my genny on my rig I had the outside fridge on and the converter on.
Do you just flip the breaker for the converter??
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312QBUD Owners Thread
2015 Wildwood Heritage Glen 312QBUD
2000 Chev 2500 Extended Cab 6 Liter
1400lbs Equal-i-zer Hitch
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02-09-2016, 05:15 PM
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#32
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Denver, CO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,102
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An additional problem is not only the start, but the cycle time and the VERY high surge that occurs when it sycles on and off. On my 9K dometic penguin, and the hard start cap, I can start the unit up initially, and restart if I delay the off-on cycle for 10 minutes by moving the thermostat, but if I let it do it's own thing, the Honda 2000i will not manage the second start up. Thinking of a "delay on break" switch with a relay that would delay the compressor restart until a few extra minutes pass. The hotter it is the more the surge is and the longer time that is needed for the head pressure to dissipate. Any ideas?
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2017 Fuse 23T
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02-09-2016, 05:20 PM
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#33
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Who Dares, Wins
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgourlie
I realized the last time I tried my genny on my rig I had the outside fridge on and the converter on.
Do you just flip the breaker for the converter??
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Yes, I just flip the breakers. My fridge used to have a gas only switch but this TT needs the breaker flipped to make it gas.
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Pat, Jen, Heather & Sapphire, the head mouser.
2015 Chevy HD D-Max
2022 Impression 315MB
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02-09-2016, 05:45 PM
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#34
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Considering a Honda 2000 is only 16.6 amps is probably why.
My 13.5k on my Sabre was roughly around 16-18 amps at start up and 12-14 amps running.
2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"
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02-09-2016, 08:00 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garbonz
An additional problem is not only the start, but the cycle time and the VERY high surge that occurs when it sycles on and off. On my 9K dometic penguin, and the hard start cap, I can start the unit up initially, and restart if I delay the off-on cycle for 10 minutes by moving the thermostat, but if I let it do it's own thing, the Honda 2000i will not manage the second start up. Thinking of a "delay on break" switch with a relay that would delay the compressor restart until a few extra minutes pass. The hotter it is the more the surge is and the longer time that is needed for the head pressure to dissipate. Any ideas?
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Do you have a delay on relay? Devoting all the available watts to the compressor start would help. Also, It would be interesting to watch the starting amps for a few cycles while on shore power? Maybe a different hard start could help. I would also try setting the thermostat at a higher temp to see if you can find the sweet spot where the compressor doesn't short cycle?
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Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
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02-10-2016, 04:36 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garbonz
An additional problem is not only the start, but the cycle time and the VERY high surge that occurs when it sycles on and off. On my 9K dometic penguin, and the hard start cap, I can start the unit up initially, and restart if I delay the off-on cycle for 10 minutes by moving the thermostat, but if I let it do it's own thing, the Honda 2000i will not manage the second start up. Thinking of a "delay on break" switch with a relay that would delay the compressor restart until a few extra minutes pass. The hotter it is the more the surge is and the longer time that is needed for the head pressure to dissipate. Any ideas?
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There is a couple of ways to do what you want, but I think the real problem is the size of your genny. Fonze posted an excellent post on ginny's. But what can help you is to install a new stat that has a built in time delay they are mostly 2 mins. So now you have automatically delayed the short cycle problem. Then add another time delay on your compressor wire most used color is yellow. Then install a delay on that circuit. then what will happen is that when your stat calls for cooling the stat will delay the power to start-up then when that kicks in it will power your second delay that you added on the yellow 12v wire in the control panel, that could give you 3.5 mins before it will come on. Your compressor should have enough time to equalize between the high and low pressures. Hope that helps you, but the hotter it gets outside the longer it will take to equalize. With doing that I would still be looking at the size of your ginny....
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Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC
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02-10-2016, 11:25 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljurczyk
There is a couple of ways to do what you want, but I think the real problem is the size of your genny. Fonze posted an excellent post on ginny's. But what can help you is to install a new stat that has a built in time delay they are mostly 2 mins. So now you have automatically delayed the short cycle problem. Then add another time delay on your compressor wire most used color is yellow. Then install a delay on that circuit. then what will happen is that when your stat calls for cooling the stat will delay the power to start-up then when that kicks in it will power your second delay that you added on the yellow 12v wire in the control panel, that could give you 3.5 mins before it will come on. Your compressor should have enough time to equalize between the high and low pressures. Hope that helps you, but the hotter it gets outside the longer it will take to equalize. With doing that I would still be looking at the size of your ginny....
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gljurczyk, Do you think running the fan during the compressor off cycle but not on compressor start up would lower the pressures and speed up the equalization process?
__________________
Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
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02-13-2016, 03:52 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Today was a relatively hot day here in Louisiana got up to about 75-80 degrees so I hooked up my new 2400 Westinghouse to the trailer and left it on econo cycle just to see what would happen. compressor started really well and the time delay works as it should I was working on my vent screen so I had time to stay in there and let it cycle - it looks like it's really going to work real well. That's not why I bought it, it's purpose is for charging batteries while boondocking but it's nice to know that if I get in a bind I may be able to have some ac for the night.
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Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
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02-13-2016, 06:28 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: x
Posts: 12,423
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Most modern stats have a built in time delay to keep the compressor from trying to restart in a high head pressure condition. Which that said i do not know about the RV stats, I'm assuming this delay is to keep the total amp draw down by starting the blower fan and then the compressor and has nothing to do with the delay when the AC is cycled. I guess I should watch the video. I also am an old time HVAC Tech.
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Retired Navy
Jake my sidekick (yellow Lab) 10/04 - 05/20
2017 RAM 2500 CC 4X4 Cummins Diesel
2016 Flagstaff 26 FKWS
AF&AM & El Korah Shrine of Idaho
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02-13-2016, 06:48 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
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Yes, Seadog, the idea of the time delay that a lot of folks are installing is to help undersized generators devote all their mojo (technical HVAC term) to the compressor load without the fan. Once the compressor starts up, a few seconds later the fan will start.
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Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
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