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02-08-2011, 10:35 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
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That is a good price, but I know nothing about the quality of that paricular brand. I personally will only by Trojans. They are more $$$, but I have experienced far better results with them than others I have tried.
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Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-09-2011, 12:05 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Where do you get your batteries and how much?
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2009 Dodge Ram Mega Cab 2500 6.7 cummins
2011 Forest River Cherokee 28BHKS
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02-09-2011, 12:37 PM
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#43
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn5995
That is a good price, but I know nothing about the quality of that paricular brand. I personally will only by Trojans. They are more $$$, but I have experienced far better results with them than others I have tried.
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Yeah, I'm onto Trojans now too. I think you get what you pay for . . .
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2021 F350 Lariat 7.3 4X4 w 4.30s, 2018 Wildcat 29RLX
2012 BMW G650GS, Demco Premiere Slider
1969 John Deere 1020, 1940 Ford 9N, 1948 Ford 8N
Jonsered 535, Can of WD-40, Duct Tape
Red Green coffee mugs
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02-09-2011, 12:43 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canandaigua,New York (The heart of the Finger Lakes)
Posts: 487
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JUst keep and eye out for sales....I know this isnt going to help anyone now. But I picked up that Black&Decker 100amp eingine start Etc.(same model number) at Lowes over Christmas for 50% off. Get people in the door price. I was lucky no one seemed interested in this sale idem....there were 3-left on a lower display. Merry Christmas to me !! That charger works the nuts. Havent done alot off Boondocking yet but i'm getting ready !! Nice thread....reading the PDF artical on" life on 12volt". Someday I'll figure it out with everyones help here !! Thanks for all the info !!
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02-09-2011, 09:53 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
Where do you get your batteries and how much?
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Locally I have been purchasing them at Sportsman's Warehouse. Although there are numerous places which carry Trojan batteries, SW is the only place I have found which stocks the SCS225s that I am using. Every other Trojan supplier would have to order them for me. My current ones I bought about 3 years ago and they were just under $400 (ouch!) with sales tax for the two. They undoubtedly have gone up in price like everything else.
__________________
Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-15-2011, 11:56 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 375
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Lou, you are right in the thinking. I have to add one piece of advice and I learned this from the boating side of my life. I am done with wet cell batteries , even deep discharge ones. I replaced my boat batteries with AGM group 27s and when the factory equipped battery on my soon to arrive Roo dies, I am replacing it with an AGM battery. They tolerate charge and discharge cycles significantly better than wet or flooded cells and their storage discharge rate, even in cold weather out performs flooded cells any day of the week and twice on Sunday. They do costs more, but their warranty is often superior too.
For a good price on AGMs, West Marine's house brand made by Deka are a great price.
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Bob, Tonya and the kids
11 Rockwood Roo 233S
08 Grady White Seafarer 228
08 Tundra 5.7 liter 4x4 crew cab TRD limited
08 Toyota limited 4 Runner Iforce V8 full time 4WD, tow package
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02-15-2011, 06:16 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Smokyroo,
I agree the AGMs are a more durable battery, but they still have a lower capacity than a comparable wet (or flooded) cell batteries. The West Marine battery you give as an example in a Group 31 AGM has a 190 minute @ 25 amp rating and a 105 AH 20 hour rating, where as my wet cell Trojan SCS225 (Group 31) has a 225 minute @ 25 amp rating and a 130 AH 20 hour rating. Two paralleled AGMs (using your exemplar battery) would yield 380 minutes @ 25 amps and a 210 AH 20 hour rating compared to the 450 minutes @ 25 amps and 260 AH 20 hour rating I currently have. This is not because of manufacturers, as Trojan also makes AGMs and their ratings are about the same as the Western Marine batteries.
The AGMs are more durable and will store better, but the flooded cells (in a comparable battery) will yield a longer discharge cycle.
I'm not arguing the point, just putting this out for information. Everyone needs to decide what works best for their situation and needs. If you want a battery that requires little maintenance, stores well and will last a long time until it needs to be replaced, the AGMs would be a good choice. In my case I regularly "boondock" and so I want a battery which will yield longer use between charges as long as it gives a reasonable service life. I have had these Trojan SCS225s for three years now without problem.
I decided upon two 12-volts paralleled rather than two 6-volts in series, but that would be a whole other discussion.
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Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-15-2011, 06:38 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 375
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My boat has a pair of group 27 AGMs. I first considered their starting power and they delivered more CCAs than the flooded Deka starting cells that came factory equipped.
I then considered their reserve capacity which was comparable when I evaluated this. Perhaps you are right they may not be the best for this given application. I for one am sick of spending money on batteries that drop their plates from vibration and so forth. AGMs are durable...it is a trade off for sure.
I got to say I can boondock it with little power use. At my stage in life I can only get away for 2 weeks tops. Our camping style is to use the camper to sleep. We don't really hang out in it. We will not be buying a TV for it, we don't do much inside it, so in my application especially if we are staying in a national park or national/forest campground, we just don't do a lot inside. We don't drain the single battery, much less a bank of them.
If we do kick it up a notch and boondock in style, I think your system is the way to go.
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Bob, Tonya and the kids
11 Rockwood Roo 233S
08 Grady White Seafarer 228
08 Tundra 5.7 liter 4x4 crew cab TRD limited
08 Toyota limited 4 Runner Iforce V8 full time 4WD, tow package
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02-15-2011, 06:51 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Agreed, in the group 31 comparison the West Marine AGM has a higher Cranking Amp rating than my wet cell Trojans, but Cranking Amps has no value for my fifth wheel. The AGMs would be a good choice for starting purposes like in your boat. I think the OEM battery is on the way out in my Power Wagon and I will most likely be replacing it with an AGM.
When I made my decision for the fifth wheel, it just didn't make sense to spend more money for an AGM which would not have as long of a discharge cycle for camping. We seldom use the television when boondocking either, but with a family which includes kids, there always seems to be lights on or something. I just try not to run the generator anymore than necessary, so we can enjoy the peace and quiet as much as possible.
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Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-15-2011, 07:50 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 375
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Here is a good chart for applications comparing all types of RV/Marine batteries by Deka...they make a wide variety of cells including the AGM batteries by West Marine I referenced earlier....
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1081.pdf
If you look at the chart, they state AGMs have outstanding performance for draw @25 amps, they have excellent recovery time once discharged below 50%, they have the quickest recharge time at 14.1 volts and rated quite high for deep cycle BCL 2 hour life.
It gives a good overview of battery types and how they compare to one another in various applications....
I still get a kick out of the term boondocking LoL...I always just called that "camping"...
Glenn, I am a bit of light warden at times...my kids have their own high intensity LED head lamps they can use in the trailer...I kind of wonder why the RV sector has not migrated over to LED technology in the overhead lamps and so forth...although I find LED lights to be cold in nature while good for hiking and so forth, they just arent a warm light...
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Bob, Tonya and the kids
11 Rockwood Roo 233S
08 Grady White Seafarer 228
08 Tundra 5.7 liter 4x4 crew cab TRD limited
08 Toyota limited 4 Runner Iforce V8 full time 4WD, tow package
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02-15-2011, 08:48 PM
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#51
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-15-2011, 11:08 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Camping is now a pretty generic term. It can mean anything from being in a tent, miles from the next person, to a Motor Coach in a Resort RV Park. "Boondocking" just specifies a type of camping. When you are boondocking, you are also camping, but when you are camping, you may not be boondocking. lol
Our camping experience has been a progression. My next step has been installing LED lighting, so I have also been following the other thread. If I can lesson my electrical usage, then my batteries will obviously last even longer, but ultimately I am there to have an enjoyable time, so I am not going to make electrical monitoring the focus of our camping.
Although AGMs have advantages, by their own ratings they will not last as long as the wet cells I am using. I considered many options before I made my decision and they have worked well. Battery technology is continuing to improve and they may not always be the choice I would make, but I am still satisfied with them.
I just finished replacing the OEM battery in the Power Wagon. I selected a Sears DieHard Platinum P-2 which ia an AGM. It seemed the best choice for the application.
__________________
Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-19-2011, 09:16 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acadianbob
Most of the deep cycle battery advice sites that I could locate suggest that the maximum charge rate should be your amp hrs / 10. So, if you have a 100 amp hr battery, your maximum charge rate should be 10 amps. So, perhaps we need to be careful about trying to pump too much into a deep cycle battery too quickly . . . . Of course, it all depends on your situation and your setup. I also found sites that suggested 20 to 25% of your amp hrs. I guess this is less than a science.
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As I have Trojan batteries, I went to their website for info. In the FAQ section the question is "What size charger should I buy?" The response is:
"A properly sized charger takes into account battery capacity and the time interval between charges. In applications where cycling is infrequent, such as weekend RV users, or infrequent or seasonal trolling motor usage, a charger with an output current rating between 10 and 13% of the battery's rated 20-hour capacity will suffice. In applications where battery recharge must be accomplished within 8 to 10 hours, a three stage, automatic charger, rated at 20% of the battery capacity, may be required."
My charger is an automatic, three stage charger. My batteries have a 260 20-hour capacity, so 260 X .20 = 52. So I could actually go up to a 52 amp charge rate. My 40-amp charger appears to be in the range (for my application) and has worked well for me.
Just posting for info sake.
Glenn
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Glenn & Beth (Dad & Mom)
David & Audra (16 year old twins)
2006 Dodge Power Wagon (Adventure & Tow Vehicle)
2006 Rockwood 8281SS (Home away from Home)
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02-19-2011, 12:41 PM
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#54
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,365
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Thanks Glenn. That info was helpful. So, in my case, a 130 amp hr Trojan and 10 to 13% would be about 15 amps. So, I just ordered this guy.
Amazon.com: Schumacher SSC-1500A Ship 'N' Shore Speed Charge Charger: Automotive
Hope it works!! Thanks everyone for some great info!!
__________________
2021 F350 Lariat 7.3 4X4 w 4.30s, 2018 Wildcat 29RLX
2012 BMW G650GS, Demco Premiere Slider
1969 John Deere 1020, 1940 Ford 9N, 1948 Ford 8N
Jonsered 535, Can of WD-40, Duct Tape
Red Green coffee mugs
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02-19-2011, 01:26 PM
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#55
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Times two Glenn. Since I plan on replacing my OEMs next year I will be shopping for a good 40 amp 3 stage charger like yours.
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Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-20-2011, 08:14 AM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 302
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Interstate
If you have an Interstate Battery Dealership near you its worth checking there blemished batteries out. These are returns, etc that are guaranteed. They are very inexpensive. Last spring I picked up 2 of the largest deep cycles they had for my boat. $45 each. They are monsters and performed well in the ocean last season. I also picked up one for my old farm tractor that has had no issues and the old girl has started all winter for plowing all this snow. I thought I would throw it out there.
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2011 Flagstaff 8528RKWS
2015 Toyota Tundra
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