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Old 02-04-2011, 05:05 PM   #21
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I didn't actually cry LOL. I can't remember what generator you have? I don't think our family can go without full hooks. Since living in comfort on vacation is nice. It's much easier to keep wife and kids cool then hot and hear them.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:21 PM   #22
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We have the Tri-fuel version of the Yamaha 3000SEB with Remote Start.


A bit heavy but it does the job. It will handle our 15K AC in Key West and still power the microwave at the same time. In Econo mode, just loafs along and 5 gallons will last a couple of days.

Been watching how the power center does its recharge of the battery bank. At 50% capacity (12.2 battery volts) the power center puts out 13.5 amps when you run the generator. This does not change even if you ramp up the generator. As the voltage rises above about 12.6 the amps drop off to about 8 amps (again the generators RPM makes no difference.)

AT 13 volts (about 85% capacity) the power center drops output again to 2.3 amps of charge.

Using a mixture of charging sources from our dry camp at Patrick AFB we started recharging at 70% capacity. I ran the generator for about 5 hours and brought the battery up to 85%; then I hooked up and drove about 4 hours to a campground in Miami charging all the way. The battery capacity at the campground was 94%. We hooked up to campground 30Amp power and charged for another 8 hours before the TM-2025 meter showed 100% "fully charged".

So my next test will be using a dedicated battery charger instead of the power center and see if the amps stay high and the recharge time is less. Anyone out there use a battery charger instead of the power center to charge their batteries?

FYI
Also of note the campground AC was 112 volts. I hooked up my Franks Autotransformer (brand new Christmas Present from DW) and zoinks! the AC jumped to 120 solid even with the AC and microwave running. Without the Franks unit in the circuit, whenever my compressor kicked in the AC volts dropped to 106. With the Franks autotransformer the voltage cut in and it went right up to 120.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
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...Anyone out there use a battery charger instead of the power center to charge their batteries...
Hello everyone! I just joined the forum, but am not new to RVing. We have had our Rockwood 8281SS since May of 2006. It replaced our previous hybrid (expandable) travel trailer.

Much of our camping is boondocking, so I am familiar with electric usage/recharging concerns. I have been using a Black & Decker Smart Charger for several years with good results. It is a 3-stage charger and will automatically shut off when the batteries are fully charged, so I do not need to worry about ruining my batteries as I would if charging straight from the generator. The initial charge rate is 40 amps if selected. You can choose from 40-20-10-4 amp initial charge rates. It will charge much faster than the power center in the trailer. I hope this helps the discussion.

Black & Decker Tools | 110 Amp Engine Start - 40 Amp / 20 Amp / 10 Amp / 4 Amp Continuous Charge Rates - Smart Battery Charger
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:01 PM   #24
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We have the Tri-fuel version of the Yamaha 3000SEB with Remote Start.

Also of note the campground AC was 112 volts. I hooked up my Franks Autotransformer (brand new Christmas Present from DW) and zoinks! the AC jumped to 120 solid even with the AC and microwave running. Without the Franks unit in the circuit, whenever my compressor kicked in the AC volts dropped to 106. With the Franks autotransformer the voltage cut in and it went right up to 120.
I would love to get this lou, but I can't to afford to loose a arm to pay for it.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:41 PM   #25
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You Rock! That exactly what I was looking for. Without the TM2025 I would have never known.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:51 PM   #26
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Glad to help. I use two Trojan SCS225s wired in parallel:

Trojan Battery Company

Obviously depending on electrical usage, I can get 3 to 5 days and still be above 50%

I use two Honda EU2000i generators with a parallel kit (I got them before they had the companion model option). I only need both if I am running the A/C (not often). Every few days I run the generator for a few hours with the Black & Decker Smart Charger to get everything back up to 100%.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:53 PM   #27
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I found these batteries.
http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/dee...-cycle-battery
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:25 AM   #28
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4) If the battery is very low it is faster to remove it from the camper and use the DC charging port on the side of the generator. It will fast charge the batteries without the limits of the power center. You MUST watch them like a hawk to avoid boiling them dry or exploding them from too much hydrogen being trapped under the vent caps.
I have been following this thread, trying to figure out what is best for my situation. I understand that the generator takes forever to charge the batteries. Even after running the generator for a couple hours, my battery is still not up to full capacity. I think 1 of the reason that I start with a low battery is that I have to open the slide (pulling a lot of amps) at the 1st of a dry camping trip, and the battery never completely recovers from that.

In reading this thread, it seems like it would be best to use the battery charger on my generator, or use a portable battery charger. So, so I have some questions concerning those options.

1. Should the battery be disconnected from the camper ?? I am thinking yes, and the generator battery charger or a portable charger may put more current to the appliances that what they can handle.

2. Which is best, the generator battery outlet or a portable charger?? Often times, I am parked at the rear of my camper, and the generator and battery are 30+ feet apart. I could run a 120 volt extension cord to a portable battery charger and do it that way. Or rig up a 12 volt extension cord to use the built-in battery charger on my generator.

3. I would have to presume that plugging the generator into the camper and charging the battery via 12 volts would be a big no-no ?? But that should be OK if I take the battery off-line ??
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:00 PM   #29
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I am not an electrician and I don't fully understand how everything works. My understanding is from the information (often conflicting) I obtain from research and my personal experiences, so take it for what it is worth.

Because we often boondock, I wanted longer battery life and went with a dual 12-volt battery set up using the batteries I previously posted. Although the batteries lasted longer, they also took much longer to re-charge. I literally could plug the trailer into the generator and run it all day long and still not have them completely recharged using the power center in the trailer. The reason was because of the slow charge rate of the trailer's power center as explained by herk7769.

I therefore began to charge straight from the generator (Honda EU2000i). I did not remove the batteries from the trailer, I have installed a battery disconnect, so I would isolate them from the trailer while charging because I did not know if there would be a problem charging while using the batteries. It was a little inconveneint not having electricity in the trailer while charging, mostly by not having the water pump available for water for toilet usage and I had to watch the batteries carefully so as to not overcharge them. This obviously kept my attention and there are plenty of other things I would rather be doing than watching batteries while camping. The result is I usually would not completely recharge the batteries, but just add some juice to them.

I then learned about the Black & Decker Smart Charger which has worked well for me as it will charge much faster than the power center in the trailer and I do not have to monitor it. I hook the charger to the batteries and plug the charger into the generator. I usually have the generators away from the trailer a distance so it will be quieter and use an extension chord from the charger to the generator. At first I disconnected the batteries while charging like I did when charging from the generator because I did not know if I could charge while using the batteries.

Finally a friend convinced me that I did not need to disconnect the batteries while charging. So for three years now I have continued to use the trailer as normal while charging and have not had any problems. It has worked well for me.

I have NOT had the trailer plugged into the 30-amp service of the generators while charging. I do not know if that would cause problems or not and I don't want to risk problems unless I am sure it can be done safely. And there is no real need as the only benefit would be the use of the A/C ( in which case I would be running the generator anyway), microwave and television.

Hope this helps. I have not had any problems running the battery charger while the batteries are in the trailer and in use.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:25 PM   #30
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Using a mixture of charging sources from our dry camp at Patrick AFB we started recharging at 70% capacity. I ran the generator for about 5 hours and brought the battery up to 85%; then I hooked up and drove about 4 hours to a campground in Miami charging all the way. .
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:40 AM   #31
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Thanks, Glenn and Beth.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:29 AM   #32
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I've had exactly the same questions as MtnGuy. I've tried to explore the issue on forums and get many different answers. The 3-stage converter on the trailer would seem like a decent way to charge (when running the generator) at 55 amps. BUT even when my batteries are quite low, the charger never seems to go into the highest level of charge. (I've NEVER seen it go into the 14.4 volt mode; only 13.6) So it seems to take forever to charge. The direct ouput from my EU2000i doesn't seem like a great idea. Only 10 amps and totally unregulated. So, it is not really a battery charger; just a 12 volt power source. It wouldn't seem to be very fast and you would have no idea as to the state of charge of your battery. It doesn't adjust as the battery charges. So, I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the best way is to bring a battery charger, hook it to the generator, and charge the battery that way. Then I do worry about whether this OK for the trailer if I don't disconnect the battery. It would seem that the trailer should tolerate it OK as its own internal charger doesn't harm it.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:03 PM   #33
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nope!
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Old 02-07-2011, 04:36 PM   #34
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So, I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the best way is to bring a battery charger, hook it to the generator, and charge the battery that way. Then I do worry about whether this OK for the trailer if I don't disconnect the battery. It would seem that the trailer should tolerate it OK as its own internal charger doesn't harm it.
This is what I am doing now. It works much better but my small battery charger is only a 10 amp unit. I need the 40 amp one that was suggested in an earlier post. I am still looking and will order it when I get home.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:15 PM   #35
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Yikes! That's one expensive charger!! I wonder how much amperage it draws? Couldn't find that information on their website. There are numerous similar chargers available. I believe that the "40 amp" on the charger link is for "starting" purposes only? Normally I think you would get a 20 amp charge? Also, aren't there "rules of thumb" about how fast you should charge a deep cycle battery based on its amp hrs? So, in our haste to recharge, might we be damaging our batteries?
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:16 PM   #36
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I have been looking for this charger. It appears to be only available on the internet. Neither Sears; K-Mart; Walmart; not Autozone seem to carry it.

I believe the 40 amp setting is for a non-routine charge stage that blasts the sulphates off the plates that build up after multiple charge/discharge cycles.

I just finished getting my two house batteries up to 98% capacity by running both my house power center and the 10 amp 3 stage battery charger at the same time. Once I shut off the 10 amp smart charger; the charge amps went from 3.6 tp 1.1 amps. The generator ran all day bringing it up from 76% to 98%. Peak charging rate at the beginning was 23 amps. It slowly dropped off to about 9.9 amps for most of the day.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:36 PM   #37
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Most of the deep cycle battery advice sites that I could locate suggest that the maximum charge rate should be your amp hrs / 10. So, if you have a 100 amp hr battery, your maximum charge rate should be 10 amps. So, perhaps we need to be careful about trying to pump too much into a deep cycle battery too quickly . . . . Of course, it all depends on your situation and your setup. I also found sites that suggested 20 to 25% of your amp hrs. I guess this is less than a science.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CEYQ8wIwAg#
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:48 PM   #38
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There are many chargers out there which may be sufficient. The Black & Decker model is simply what I am using with good results. It does quite a bit. It can be set for Wet,Gel or AGM batteries. It checks for shorts, checks voltage, checks alternators (if used on vehicles), desulfates and has an engine start feature for when the battery is completely dead. It also has instructions for the amp rate in relation to battery size. It cautions the 40 amp charge is only for large batteries and banks of RV batteries. I forget the required AH rating for 40 amp recharging recommendation, but it is in the manual.

You must remember I have two Trojan SCS225s in parallel, so they have a 260 AH rating. They last quite awhile, but take quite a bit to recharge.

I have not had any problems charging them while they are use in the trailer.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #39
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OK, here is another aspect of battery charging that confuses me. The 3-stage converters talk about bulk, absorption, float and indicate VOLTS. e.g. 14.4, 13.6, 13.1. But when you look at battery chargers, they talk about amps; e.g. 20, 10, etc. And the internal converter of my trailer says the charger is 55 amp. So, what is most important? Volts, Amps? Best answer probably says BOTH!! Can anyone shed some light on this?
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:24 PM   #40
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The way I was taught was to think of volts as "Pressure" and amps as "flow".

So, the way I understand it; the battery's actual existing charge (voltage pushing back) determines how much charge can be pushed into the battery. The higher the back pressure; the higher the charging pressure has to be to get "flow" into the battery.

So the lower the initial voltage of the battery, the more amps you can push in at a lower charging voltage. As the battery "fills up" the amps or flow into the battery drops off. Then the charger steps up the voltage to the next stage and the amps pick up again. When the battery is about 90% full, the charger has to go into a even higher pressure to push amps into the battery to finish it off. If the 14 volt setting is not available on your charger; it can take forever since the charging amps will continue to drop as the charge in the battery builds.

So, why not charge at 14 volts all the time? Well just imagine how many amps you can push into a low battery! That many amps will heat up the electrolyte so much that it can boil the water right out of it. It will also generate a huge amount of hydrogen and the caps may not be able to release it fast enough to avoid an explosive concentration under the vent caps. Any spark or static discharge could cause a battery explosion.

If there is an electrical engineer out there who can explain it better; please fire away. If I am totally off base please let me know where I am going wrong as I am always eager to learn more.
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