Installing 2000watt inverter on new NOBO 19.1

[stephensatt]

Ok folks. I am sure there is an old thread on this but I am starting a new one. Feel free to move it, if there is an ongoing one as I could not find it.

My GOAL is to be able to power the main RV AC input off of the inverter for about 15-30 minutes, which would allow me to run the AC or the microwave and power all the AC receptacles just like I was on land power. I have watched some Youtube videos and people are getting up to 1 HR using 2 marine batteries and a 2000watt inverter running the 15,000 BTU AC unit and they also ran the microwave separately.

The goal is NOT to run everything at the same time as if I was on a 30amp or 50amp receptacle on land power, and I know that 2000 watts is not enough to do that. I already know that I cannot run everything at the same time. I did use a 2000 watt Honda EU2000 generator with my last RV for 15 years and it ran either the AC or the Microwave no problem and everything else , just not at the same time, so I my expectations are to reproduce that, and nothing more.

I am going to go with the Krieger 2000 watt inverter on Amazon, mainly because it gets really good reviews and has allot of Q and A answers and so forth and also because it comes with a 3 year warranty, and a remote switch RJ11 Telephone wire, and a 200AMP breaker and two 3 FT of 2 gauge cables.

When I get it, I am going to go simple first and just hook it up to the single marine battery the NOBO comes with and then plug the RV 30 amp cable directly into it using a 30amp/15amp RV plug converter we are so familiar with having to use extension cords for our RVs. This will allow me to see if the Air Conditioner and the microwave first run off of the inverter before I do any other permanent wiring to see if it can power the RV.

My next step will be to mount the inverter, mount the wall plate that has the remote switch and wire in a second marine battery.

What I want to do, but am debating whether I want to introduce a possible fire hazard is install a switch that takes the output of the Inverter 110V side and run it through a 3 way switch that I can flip inside the trailer and it switches the outside AC 30amp RV receptacle, turns it off and switches it over to the inverter. Currently if I just manually plug it in, then there is no way I can accidentally have AC in from utility hookups or generator, and inverter possibly being hooked up simultaneously .

Once I have that solved, I am going to mount solar panels on the roof. The NOBO came with solar pre-wired, just not the panels and I assume that with a charge controller those really just charge the batteries directly and I cannot see why they would be wired into the inverter at all.

If anyone has some good instructions on this type of setup, it would be much appreciated.

[formerFR]

Am I assuming correctly that you want to power the 13.5kw roof air conditioner thru your 'new' Inverter?

How many batteries, size and amp hours, will you be attaching this big boy to?

The question may be less about whether the 2000w Inverter can 'handle' it, but whether your Batteries can... or will you be buying new batteries every couple of weeks?

[stephensatt]

Thanks for the reply. I am already seeing some videos where when people use a 2000w inverter with only 1 battery it throws the alarm on the inverter using 15k btu RV Air Conditioner so I think two batteries would be the minimum needed to provide the startup wattage necessary.

It looks like you could expect a draw of about 30-35amps continuous and about 40amp startup. Each battery is 35amp HRs. So far on all the videos people running two batteries were able to power the 15k BTU air conditioner with no problems but got alarms with only 1 battery using 2000 watt modified syn-wave inverters.

I am wondering if I should just go ahead and spend the extra $100 on a 3000w because in a 2 battery setup their would be no question that it should work or not, instead of being right on the edge.

Also GFI circuits although they do work, show a red light on them using a modified syn-wave inverter, and online people are saying , that a pure syn-wave inverter would not make the GFI sockets do that but I cannot find confirmation on that.

Going with pure syn-wave adds another 25% to the cost of the inverter and I don't know if thats absolutely needed. I would be more inclined to buy the pure syn-wave if I thought maybe it was more energy efficient and I got longer run time out of it.

Its a new trailer and I would like to not goof around with "just good enough" equipment. At first I was only planning the road side, 30 minute lunch stops for using this inverter which is perfect for that because the generator is not built into the NOBO and I don't want to have to deal with the generator for short roadside stops which we do often.

The more I think about it, why not spend $500 more and try and go "off the grid" with a bigger solar array on the roof and get some more serious runtime but even then, you probably won't go more than 2 or 3 hrs on batteries running AC and I am sure I would need 3 batteries and thats about the weight limit I want to go and cost of changing out all those batteries all the time. I don't think I ever got more than 3 years on a standard marine battery.

There are some other issues and this is why I need further research. What is actually the sweet spot here? In my little 2006 17ft Casita with just 1 marine battery and not using AC because the weather is nice, I could go about 12 hrs, and thats running only a 300watt inverter for my notebook computer and tv and some interior lights (non-led) and then they start to dim.

So what would I need in the NOBO to get 2 or 3 full days, using NO AC, moderate microwave use, say 1 minute here and there, and run various electronics, TVs, Computers, interior LED lighting, maybe a fan on 2 or 3 marine batteries while at the same time having good solar?

Would a bigger 3000w inverter draw more power overall, in otherwords, pulling more power than the solar can keep up or does that even matter? I would love to hear from someone who has gone off the grid and solar and see what I can expect to get.

[formerFR]

I would think a larger inverter is not going to solve anything

I would also think that a modified sine wave inverter will have nothing to do with GFCI circuits, mine doesn’t...

You will kill a 12v battery in a very short time trying to power a 15kw air conditioner, and you will be buying more very soon...an expensive drawback.. any videos showing that you ‘can’ are just that, but being real-world practical is a whole different story.

Sounds like you bought a ‘small’ RV when you really want a ‘big’ one - just get a simple generator and run your a/c as long as you’d like...

[stephensatt]

Yes it looks like two 12v batteries is the minimum. Also seeing guys using 4 Golf Cart 6volt batteries wired in series and for 2 banks of 12volts. Gives you about 200 amp hrs which is pretty amazing. Those batteries are about $85 each. Since the trailer is new, I will probably buy just 1 extra 12 volt marine battery for right now since I already have 1 new one.

Everyone seems to be using the 2000w inverters on the 20 footer RVs. My NOBO is 25ft and has a single 15,000 BTU AC with a wal mounted thermostat controller that also runs the propane heater under the refrigerator.

UPDATE : I am looking at Walmart MAXX marine batteries and they are about $90 or so price range each. 12v at 100AH so two of them just about equals 4 golf cart batteries.

[tomkatb]

3000 watt quality inverter. Not a $200 one.

4/0 wire plus 300 amp fuse to the battery. Minimum length wire from the batteries.

2 Costco 6 volts.

Heavy extension cord, minimum length to the rv 30 amp plug with a 15 amp dogbone.

Turn all 110 breakers off. Fire it up. One breaker at a time on.

Fancier wiring will get you a fire if you mess up!

I was going to do this.

Installed a 12 volt outlet and bought a small portable inverter to run the tv!

Use the gas range and the fancy ceiling fans. No ac.

My son did a lot of experimenting with this.

Not worth the money for us.

[lbrjet]

How do you figure 30-35 amps? An AC is going to be more like 130 amps using 12 volts.

[CraigSK]

I don't know what kind of money you're contemplating spending, but in my opinion, and if you have the money, you should consider changing over to lithium batteries. They weigh about 1/3 the weight of traditional batteries. You COULD put 6 of them on the tongue of your trailer, getting you 600ah with about 500ah usable and would still weigh the same. Conversely, you could have 2 of them getting you 200 ah and about 160 ah useable and save 2/3 of that weight on the tongue. With 2 traditional batteries you actually only get about 100-120 ah of actual usable energy without damaging the batteries. The HUGE downside is those batteries run 600-800 each. Up sides are they weigh a lot less, have more usable energy, and will last YEARS longer than traditional batteries (perhaps lasting 10-15 years depending on the number of charge cycles).
Money being no object (which it usually is) I'd throw 2 100 watt or 160 watt solar panels on the roof of the RV running through a 30 amp or 40 amp charge controller. Then I'd also get 200-320 watts of ground mount solar that I could hook into the side of the trailer (assuming your trailer already has a solar on the side hookup..and if not, easy to add). When hooked up and running the ground mount could then give you a total of between 400-640 watts of continuous daytime charging (depending on the solar panels you use). Plus, by having the ground mounts you don't have to worry as much about parking your trailer in the sun. You can park in a shaded place and then put the ground mounts nearby in the sun. And then, of course, add the inverter. One last thing I would recommend is a soft start module for the AC. It significantly reduces the start up amp load required to kick on the compressor.
I did a similar setup, but smaller, 1 100 watt panel on my roof for now, with the plan to add 1 more in the future. a 40 amp mppt charge controller to allow room for expansion. solar on the side. and I'm keeping my 2 deep cycle batteries for now since they were new with the trailer but will replace them with lithium when they go bad.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

How do you figure 30-35 amps? An AC is going to be more like 130 amps using 12 volts.

This. So much this.

With 2 batteries, you'll be lucky to get 15 minutes of runtime before totally depleting them to their 50% state of charge.

[stephensatt]

If I knew for sure I would get 10 to 15 years out of Lithium batteries I would do it, but in my experience about every 4th Lithium battery I have bought went bad within 6 months to a year of purchase because of some defect and I could not get a warranty on them after that amount of time.

You can buy used Lithium batteries like you are talking for about $350 each on ebay so yeh it would pay for itself and the weight saving is great also. Other than price, that is an issue is longevity. I have never ever seen a single battery of any kind in my whole life last 10 to 15 years. The longest I ever got from a battery was Autozone Platinum Lead - Acid with a 8 year warranty, and I got 6 years tops out of those and used too religiously buy them for RV and truck use until I found a cheaper option. They are super heavy, and are a cross between a marine and a standard car battery and run about $250 each. They used to be quite a bit cheaper at about $120-150 in late 90's early 2000's but the price has really shot up on batteries across the board and I bet its because of taxes and regulations. Texas has added 2 different taxes onto car batteries now.

I basically have switched to Walmart MAXX batteries on everything because of cost and wide availability. All Walmart MAXX batteries I have bought last at least 4 years and are about $100 ea. So for $300, thats 3 batteries I would get 12 years guaranteed and Walmart pro-ratings are guaranteed, so if I get a defect, Walmart will pay the difference toward a replacement battery and because of that I have gotten $100 Walmart batteries and also Autozone for as cheap as $30 for a new one because I got 2 years out of one because I had let it go dead to many times, and they even cover user error like that , so its worth it.

I am not knocking Lithium and have started to move that way on my littler toys like my Kawasaki Motorcycle because you can get the smaller Lithium batteries for powertoys for less than $100 and the weight is way way lighter. About 2 lbs vs 8lbs for a motorcycle battery.

I am gonna start mid-range I think with this setup and it will be 2 batteries to start, only because you need a minimum of two to operate a microwave and or 15k btu AC. I will move to 3 and then 4 batteries at some point if I think I need it.

You could go really expensive with solar and get days out of it with a $5000 setup, but being practical about this, using the generator is going to be more practical and charging just a bank of batteries ahead of time is also being practical.

I just want to move into the future here and at least try my luck with a solar setup. The real reason for solar other than on the fly convenience of running the microwave or AC temporarily at road side and truck stops for lunch, is the peace and quite of battery/solar setup.

I just don't wanna be that guy sitting there overlooking some pristine desert landscape, and there I go starting up the generator, and ruin it and run off the prairie dogs.

[bigred123]

I myself am getting ready to install a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter with 2 12v 95 amphr batteries in my new 2019 2511s. I am going to duplicate my install that I did in my 2017 wolf pup. I installed a 3 way 4 pole selector switch with the inverter. The #1 position aligns the shore power wiring to the RV panel. The #2 position disconnects the wiring from the shore power and connects the inverter power to the RV panel. At the same time, the 4th pole disconnects the battery charge output from the RV panel so the inverter is not charging the batteries. I also wire a 120v inverter outlet in the bedroom for my CPAP directly from the inverter output so I dont have to power the RV converter at night. This arrangement has worked perfectly for 3 years and is fool proof so you can never have the shore power parallel the inverter power. I also install a batterry monitor. I preferr this over an automatic transfer switch because the transfer switch will always power your converter even though it does not charge the batteries. The center position disconnects the inverter and shore power from the RV panel and allows me to power the inverter only outlets without powering the converter. JUst to add.....I only run toaster, microwave, hair dryer, coffee maker for short periods and I can get almost 3 days out of the batteries before I hit 50%.

[babock]

There is no way you will run your AC for very long. a 15K BTU AC requires around 1500W to run continuously. That's close to 150A that your inverter will draw taking into account the inverter efficiency. Add in the fact that the voltage drop of both the batteries and the wire interconnects will cause your inverter to hit its low voltage cutout, you will be lucky to get a few minutes of AC with FLA batteries.


Only way to do it is with lithium batteries and a LOT of them. I have two Battleborn with a 2000W inverter and I won't even try it...not worth it.

[babock]

Originally Posted by stephensatt

If I knew for sure I would get 10 to 15 years out of Lithium batteries I would do it, but in my experience about every 4th Lithium battery I have bought went bad within 6 months to a year of purchase because of some defect and I could not get a warranty on them after that amount of time.

You do realize that the lithium batteries that you buy for consumer electronics is a completely different type and chemistry than the LiFePO4 batteries used for RVs?

[stephensatt]

Originally Posted by bigred123

I myself am getting ready to install a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter with 2 12v 95 amphr batteries in my new 2019 2511s. I am going to duplicate my install that I did in my 2017 wolf pup. I installed a 3 way 4 pole selector switch with the inverter. The #1 position aligns the shore power wiring to the RV panel. The #2 position disconnects the wiring from the shore power and connects the inverter power to the RV panel. At the same time, the 4th pole disconnects the battery charge output from the RV panel so the inverter is not charging the batteries. I also wire a 120v inverter outlet in the bedroom for my CPAP directly from the inverter output so I dont have to power the RV converter at night. This arrangement has worked perfectly for 3 years and is fool proof so you can never have the shore power parallel the inverter power. I also install a batterry monitor. I preferr this over an automatic transfer switch because the transfer switch will always power your converter even though it does not charge the batteries. The center position disconnects the inverter and shore power from the RV panel and allows me to power the inverter only outlets without powering the converter. JUst to add.....I only run toaster, microwave, hair dryer, coffee maker for short periods and I can get almost 3 days out of the batteries before I hit 50%.

Ok, sounds like you got it figured out! Do you have any pictures and a part number or brand on that switch?