Instant Hot Water Heaters

[yensidcamper]

Originally Posted by ChateauV10

Sounds like we'll be able to compare notes soon!

Would you mind saying why you are ditching the water heater the RV came with and why you chose what you chose?

Cheers!

I am ditching the 6 gallon water heater because with 2 adults and 2 teenagers we can't all shower in a reasonable time frame. The 6 gallon gas and electric heater did a good job recovering between showers but the showers were just too short.

I chose the Suburban because it looked like the easiest replacement. I am removing a Suburban water heater. I also liked the 60000 BTUs. Suburban is made in Dayton, TN and I live in TN and like supporting a local company. The price from PPL was better than the other models I have seen. Their promotional video did a good job convincing me their product would do what I wanted.

My second choice was likely the Atwood.

I hope this helps.

[yensidcamper]

Originally Posted by Falcon72

I am looking forward to your review of the IW60!

FedEx is to deliver tomorrow. I will take some pictures and post as I go along. I have this weekend and next to get it installed. I hope I have an easy time and can give some good feedback. We will be hitting the road Memorial Day to try it out.

[ChateauV10]

Sounds reasonable!


My wife has been washing her hair in small sailboats and travel trailers for over 30 years and said that this latest TT with the Suburban 6 gal was "unacceptable". That's when I went shopping.


The 3rd generation Girard was going to be easier to get for us and so we are having it installed in time for our Memorial Day trip as well.


We'll see!

[ChateauV10]

I had the gen III Girard installed and picked the trailer up Saturday. When we did some tests at the shop, the water output from the pump was very poor, surging and very intermittent. The WH would not fire in those conditions so I was initially very disappointed.

On city water, everything worked fine so after some back and forth, checking bypass valves and possible kinks, the valve on the input to the WH, adjusting the water pump, we sub'd a new pump and the issue went away!. So, we have a new WH and a new WP and are all set to head out this Wednesday for a week at an electric-only site in Olema, CA.

I'll report back after we take the first shower with the new WH.

Cheers!

[Falcon72]

I ordered the Suburban IW60 yesterday. When it comes in and I get it installed I will provide a review.

[mopwr4me2003]

Not sure if this is one people are looking at but not bad price from what I've seen so far.

[keeko785]

What i dont understand is why no one tries to install a second heater either before the factory propane or after the factory unit, atleast in my 2000 24 ft tt theres enough room for 2.

They make 4 gallon and 6 gallon on demand kits that would tandem nicely with a 6 gallon propane?

[ChateauV10]

Originally Posted by keeko785

What i dont understand is why no one tries to install a second heater either before the factory propane or after the factory unit, atleast in my 2000 24 ft tt theres enough room for 2.

They make 4 gallon and 6 gallon on demand kits that would tandem nicely with a 6 gallon propane?

This is essentially what I am planning to do, add a 1.3 or 2.5 gallon point of use electric water heater after the Girard. it will plug in right where the old Suburban did and keep the water in it's tank nice and hot when we have power while camping, which is 99.5% of the time. This solves the "first quart" or "first Gallon" problem with on demand WH like the Girard and the others. They all take some time to get the hot water flowing and if you are talking a nice hot shower, it's not a big deal but if you are washing your hands or rinsing dishes, it's huge. You don't have hot water for 8-12 seconds and that is all the time (or water) you need to wash or rinse. You shut the tap and then, turn it on again in a few seconds and you have a second of hot water and then cold until the on demand gets going. It's a little irritating, I can tell you!

So, I am looking for a used tiny tank WH to show up on CL that I can buy and plumb into the water system in the trailer at the output of the Girard. Then, we will have the best of both worlds!

Cheers!

[bob caldwell]

Why not change shower head to the style that has a slide to on and off water flow....no mess'n with faucets once set

[ChateauV10]

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Why not change shower head to the style that has a slide to on and off water flow....no mess'n with faucets once set

Because as soon as the water flow rate decreases, like when you slide off the water flow at the head, the water heater shuts down.

When you slide the water on, the water heater takes 6-9 seconds to start back up again. During that time you get cold or non-heated water.

That's the definition of the 1st quart problem. EVERY time you cut the flow through the on-demand water heater, it stops heating.

[bob caldwell]

Even if the shower head doesn't completely shut flow off?

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[ChateauV10]

more or less, yes. The Girard must "see" 0.8 gallons/minute flowing or it turns off. The other on-demand types all work in a similar fashion. Fine for regular showers, not so good for hands, rinsing dishes or "Navy" style water conserving showers.

[bob caldwell]

Thanks

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[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by ChateauV10

This is essentially what I am planning to do, add a 1.3 or 2.5 gallon point of use electric water heater after the Girard. it will plug in right where the old Suburban did and keep the water in it's tank nice and hot when we have power while camping, which is 99.5% of the time. This solves the "first quart" or "first Gallon" problem with on demand WH like the Girard and the others. They all take some time to get the hot water flowing and if you are talking a nice hot shower, it's not a big deal but if you are washing your hands or rinsing dishes, it's huge. You don't have hot water for 8-12 seconds and that is all the time (or water) you need to wash or rinse. You shut the tap and then, turn it on again in a few seconds and you have a second of hot water and then cold until the on demand gets going. It's a little irritating, I can tell you!

So, I am looking for a used tiny tank WH to show up on CL that I can buy and plumb into the water system in the trailer at the output of the Girard. Then, we will have the best of both worlds!

Cheers!

I understand what you are saying and appreciate what you are trying to accomplish but I'm thinking you will cause yourself more problems than you are fixing But as my wife reminds me... I've been wrong before....

We have had the Atwood tankless for 3 years and use it mainly boondocking and some hookups. Love it. You must have a lot longer run from the heater to the faucet or something. If we wait for hot water more than 3 seconds I'd be surprised. As for taking navy showers we find the wait for hot water the same as having a tank after restarting the flow for rinsing. Of course in hot weather there is no wait In the winter all the cold water we get is the amount in the lines that cools while we are lathering.

Or maybe it's the difference between Girard and Atwood. No clue.

I wish you luck in your search for the perfect hot water solution.. keep us posted!

[ChateauV10]

Scott,


It's good to hear you are satisfied with your Attwood. We shied away because the wall and internals of the rig would need to be enlarged to fit the Attwood "box"-it's rectangular while the Suburban is essentially square.


The YT clip I reviewed on the Attwood on-demand suggested it was operating just as the Girard does....it get's told you want hot water and it waits until it sees some amount of water flow, maybe around a gallon/minute and then it waits for a couple seconds (6?) to confirm the flow and while waiting, turns on the fan, clears the combustion chamber and waits for the time out on the water flow and then lights the burner. Water heats up and starts it's journey to the faucet or showerhead and voila, you gets hot water. It's that waiting that I call the first quart problem. (granted, it may be more like a "first pint problem.." and the issue I am looking to overcome.


Anyway, I am curious what problems you foresee with my plan? I scored a 2.5 gallon minitank WH on Ebay and once I build a small platform for it under the sink, it's going in, hopefully in time for our mid-July stay at the beach in Half Moon Bay, CA. I'll check in with pics of the install and afterwards a report on how the lash-up works...


Cheers!

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by ChateauV10

Scott,


It's good to hear you are satisfied with your Attwood. We shied away because the wall and internals of the rig would need to be enlarged to fit the Attwood "box"-it's rectangular while the Suburban is essentially square.


The YT clip I reviewed on the Attwood on-demand suggested it was operating just as the Girard does....it get's told you want hot water and it waits until it sees some amount of water flow, maybe around a gallon/minute and then it waits for a couple seconds (6?) to confirm the flow and while waiting, turns on the fan, clears the combustion chamber and waits for the time out on the water flow and then lights the burner. Water heats up and starts it's journey to the faucet or showerhead and voila, you gets hot water. It's that waiting that I call the first quart problem. (granted, it may be more like a "first pint problem.." and the issue I am looking to overcome.

Anyway, I am curious what problems you foresee with my plan? I scored a 2.5 gallon minitank WH on Ebay and once I build a small platform for it under the sink, it's going in, hopefully in time for our mid-July stay at the beach in Half Moon Bay, CA. I'll check in with pics of the install and afterwards a report on how the lash-up works...


Cheers!

Hello! I'm sure all the on-demands work the same way. Most folks we talk to have nothing good to say about them and have them traded out for tanks before they even give them a chance. So I guess you might say we are advocates for tankless And in all honesty (watch it when someone says that we don't find the wait for hot water from our tankless any different than in our stick house, and it has a recirculating pump and a 100 gallon tank.

Problems? At this point any problems I'm thinking of are all hypothetical. Just seems like 2 heaters in sequence along with all the electrical, plumbing, and gas, is going to be an interesting experiment And I think you are still going to have a few seconds of cold water.

But I am extremely interested in the outcome of your experiment! If it works well you should propose the idea to the manufacturers!

Good luck!

[Taranwanderer]

We have a tankless (Rinnai) in our house. It took some time to get used to the "wait for a while until the hot water makes it to you" factor, and the "don't turn the water off when doing dishes/washing hands/showering or you get the cold water sandwich" factor. I can tell you that you will fill up you gray tank (or black as in my case) with a tankless because you'll use more water (and deplete your FW tank, if boondocking.) The upside is that it literally cut our propane usage in half in our house, and I'd expect something of a similar effect in the camper. Plus the "you could fill your swimming pool with hot water" factor is pretty great, too. Good luck with the install!

[NMWildcat]

[QUOTE=Taranwanderer;1237122I can tell you that you will fill up you gray tank (or black as in my case) with a tankless because you'll use more water (and deplete your FW tank, if boondocking.) [/QUOTE]

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. We mainly boondock with our tankless and our water usage per week is exactly the same as when we had a tank. And we really don't have a wait for the hot water. I don't know if we are just lucky or if our experience is abnormal.

[bob caldwell]

Is everybody in that big of hurry?

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[Falcon72]

Well... I finally got that IW60 installed. I ordered it back in June. It came in right before the July 4th holiday. I was camping so much during the summer I did not have time to install it. I just finally got to it today... wow.. the summer has went fast.

The install went well. I did paint the access door black. It took a few days to put several coats of paint on the door. I had to build a small wood platform for the heater to sit on. The 6 gallon was sitting up off the floor and I needed the IW60 to sit at the same height to line up with the cutout in the side of my trailer. The access door frame did not fit the camper wall cutout very well. The wall was not cut out smoothly. I had to clean up the cutout so the door frame would fit flush to the camper side.

I used PEX to install the plumbing just as the OEM. I already had the PEX crimping tools since I ran PEX in my house. I did not install any valve in teh system; however, I do have a pipe union in each hot and cold water line. If not having a valve becomes an issue it is easy to add since the camper is PEX.

As for the wiring I used the same on/off switch from the factory. I did not purchase the Suburban switch. The one from FR was a KBI model with a small DSI light. I did not wire the DSI light yet but I will connect it tomorrow and have it serve as the lockout light.

The only other thing I have not completed is the drain. The heater has a drain. I am not for sure why since I will just pump RV antifreeze through it. I connected a braided hose to it and ran the hose down into the underbelly enclosure. I just need to find the hose and cut a small hole in the underbelly so the hose drains below the camper.

I did hook the water up and test the heater. It seems to be working just as I expected. I turned the water on and off several times and each time it kicked on just as expected. It did seem to take a little longer to get hot water at the faucet than with the tank but it was not very long. I can certainly see how you do not want to shut the water on and off. This cycles the unit and you get a small amount of cold water in the hot water line.

I am ready to go camping now this Fall and try it out for an entire weekend. Unfortunately the 1st chance I have to do it may be November. I may have trouble in my area finding a campground open. If not I am headed South at Christmas.

Once I use it for weekend I will post a review.