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12-10-2018, 01:49 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 44
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Isata 5 36DS Lithium Upgrade
Has anyone completed an upgrade to replace the stock AGMs with Lithium Batteries? I haven't received my I5 yet, it's due in February, but l want to upgrade to lithium right away. I'm looking for a basic wiring diagram of the new I5 (including solar panels) so I can begin contacting someone like BattleBorn to see what new equipment I need to order and what wiring changes I need to make. My vision is to install five or six 100 ah batteries. Any help would be appreciated!
__________________
2019 Dynamax Isata 5 36 DS 4X4
2010 Jeep Wrangler
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12-12-2018, 08:00 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Almost Tijuana
Posts: 1,233
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I've got dual 6V flooded lead/acid batteries so I can't offer advice. I can say that the batteries you're talking about in the quantity you're looking at could be over $3000 (depending on manufacturer) so maybe that explains the lack of response so far. Not a lot of people are going to pony up that much $$$
__________________
I just want to be outside!!!
'17 Salem Cruise Lite 210RBXL
'11 F150 5.0
Only one shedding mutt now RIP Yoshi
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12-12-2018, 10:35 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 44
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Yes I know that batteries are expensive initially. It seems the best way to greatly expand capacity without adding excessive weight. I’m surprised no ones done it yet, but I’ll be a trailblazer if I need to. Thanks for the reply.
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12-13-2018, 01:15 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSteelManUSA
Has anyone completed an upgrade to replace the stock AGMs with Lithium Batteries? I haven't received my I5 yet, it's due in February, but l want to upgrade to lithium right away. I'm looking for a basic wiring diagram of the new I5 (including solar panels) so I can begin contacting someone like BattleBorn to see what new equipment I need to order and what wiring changes I need to make. My vision is to install five or six 100 ah batteries. Any help would be appreciated!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSteelManUSA
Yes I know that batteries are expensive initially. It seems the best way to greatly expand capacity without adding excessive weight. I’m surprised no ones done it yet, but I’ll be a trailblazer if I need to. Thanks for the reply.
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I love my Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries.
I think you need to repost the question on Isata 5 36DS wiring in the Dynamax sub forum.
The replace the stock AGMs with Lithium Batteries question should be asked in the Electrical, Charging Systems & Solar sub forum.
There is a lot of threads on Lithium Batteries there.
I waited a year until after my warranty expired before I did any major modifications to my FR3.
see: Expanding compartment space for 2200 Watt Inverter/Charger.
I made a couple mistakes:
1> I should have installed a battery monitor from the start. After I installed my Victron BMV-712, I could know the ampere hours consumed and the state of charge of my Lithium batteries from my cell phone.
2> Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries don't work below 32F. The factory battery compartment is open air for lead acid fumes. I have my FR3 at a RV Custom shop to enclose my battery bay as I write this.
Final thoughts:
Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries have a different voltage charging curve than lead acid. Make sure your Inverter/Charger can be programed for LiFePO4 Lithium or you will destroy them.
Ask questions and search this Forest River Forum for threads about LiFePO4 batteries. Then ask more questions.
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12-13-2018, 06:05 PM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 17
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Here's a video of a young full time RVer. Very smart guy.
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12-13-2018, 11:18 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy G
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Great video. I need someone like that to help me not damage something...like normal. Thx!
__________________
2019 Dynamax Isata 5 36 DS 4X4
2010 Jeep Wrangler
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12-14-2018, 12:45 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rk06382
I
Final thoughts:
Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries have a different voltage charging curve than lead acid. Make sure your Inverter/Charger can be programed for LiFePO4 Lithium or you will destroy them.
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You won't destroy them as they have a built in BMS that will turn off the charge when they get 100% charged. The problem with not using a lithium charge profile is that you won't be taking advantage of the larger charging currents available. Personally, I switched out my converter to a lithium Progressive Dynamics.
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12-14-2018, 12:46 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rk06382
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Interesting color combination for cables! Red cables for negative and a black one for one of the positive!
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12-14-2018, 01:54 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babock
Interesting color combination for cables! Red cables for negative and a black one for one of the positive!
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I started with two ten foot 4/0 AWG cables, one Red & one Black. The positive side of the batteries is the farthest from the Inverter/Charger. To install the master shutoff on the positive side, we had to use black cable with red tape.
400ah Battle Born LiFePO4 install (May 2018):
Victron BMV-712 shunt install(Aug 2018):
Master shutoff install (Aug 2018):
A work in progress.
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12-14-2018, 07:23 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSteelManUSA
Has anyone completed an upgrade to replace the stock AGMs with Lithium Batteries? I haven't received my I5 yet, it's due in February, but l want to upgrade to lithium right away. I'm looking for a basic wiring diagram of the new I5 (including solar panels) so I can begin contacting someone like BattleBorn to see what new equipment I need to order and what wiring changes I need to make. My vision is to install five or six 100 ah batteries. Any help would be appreciated!
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I own a 36DS with 4 AGM batteries. This has been discussed on the Dynamax page but could not find the thread.
The battery tray will hold up to 4 batteries.
The comment on the charger only supporting lead acid batteries is correct. There is no setting for lithium batteries.
Consider where you will camp if lithium batteries will not work below 32 degrees. I have camped along the Gulf Shores in Jan where the temp had been below 32 at night. How will it impact charging if you store during the winter? Solar panels on my unit keep the batteries charged while being stored during winter.
You have to determine the effect on the warranty if you modify the electrical system.
Good luck.
__________________
Pat
2017 Isata 5
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12-14-2018, 12:47 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rk06382
A work in progress.
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Please tell me you didn't use one of those hammer crimpers for these.
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12-14-2018, 09:02 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babock
Please tell me you didn't use one of those hammer crimpers for these.
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That was what my installer had at that time. I am thinking of buying a 16 Ton Hydraulic Crimper, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I will recrimp the next time I pull the batteries.
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12-14-2018, 09:59 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rk06382
That was what my installer had at that time. I am thinking of buying a 16 Ton Hydraulic Crimper, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I will recrimp the next time I pull the batteries.
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When the installer brings out the hammer crimper, you know you are in trouble!
Put a heavy load on your system some day and measure the voltage drop across each of those cables and make sure they are all about the same.
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12-14-2018, 11:09 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babock
When the installer brings out the hammer crimper, you know you are in trouble!
Put a heavy load on your system some day and measure the voltage drop across each of those cables and make sure they are all about the same.
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With a 150 amp load, I was able to noticed a <0.05v difference between the Victron BMV-712 shunt and the Inverter/Charger. But the difference is so small, it could be a calibration issue. I have used my infrared gun to see if I had any hot spots.
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12-15-2018, 05:13 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 95
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I have an Isata 5 and will be interested in knowing how this turns out. My original AGM's died when my Xantrex battery charger over heated (I assume) and overcharged the batteries (fact). I am now running four CostCo golf cart batteries until I make the leap to Lithium.
Weight savings is a big deal. Especially up front. I am wondering about moving the batteries to underneath the bench(s) at the dining room table. This would both bring them indoors and out of the cold. And also move the weight back to the rear axle.
My hope is to install two additional 100 watt solar panels and four Lithium batteries. I am thinking four will be enough as one can discharge Lithium more than 50%. (I think I remember that?) Also, since Lithium absorbs a charge so much more efficiently. I don't think the few hours on the generator will matter.
One of the possible conundrums is the engine batteries. Ideally, I would think that they should be Lithium also? That way all your charging sources can be programmed for Lithium? Three sources - solar - battery charger - alternator(s).
I wish I knew what I was talking about.
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12-15-2018, 06:16 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Can't use lithium to start your engine. 100A limit per battery.
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12-16-2018, 07:36 AM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 95
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I now know that the chassis alternator would need to have a programable regulator or require an external regulator, or a DC to DC programable charger to safely charge the house lithiums from the engine's alternator. I also see those items as obtainable. Presumably one could also change out the trucks alternator to a programable one (assuming the stock on is not).
For those who are interested in this upgrade. This is an informative thread. I wonder why somebody would read it. And then post remarks about how they are not interested in this upgrade. How is that helpful information?
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12-16-2018, 02:20 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinthekeys
...or a DC to DC programable charger to safely charge the house lithiums from the engine's alternator.
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That would be the best way if you really want the engine to properly charge the lithiums.
You would want some sort of isolator if you don't use a DC-DC converter.
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ation-manager/
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12-16-2018, 03:58 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinthekeys
I have an Isata 5 and will be interested in knowing how this turns out. My original AGM's died when my Xantrex battery charger over heated (I assume) and overcharged the batteries (fact). I am now running four CostCo golf cart batteries until I make the leap to Lithium.
Weight savings is a big deal. Especially up front. I am wondering about moving the batteries to underneath the bench(s) at the dining room table. This would both bring them indoors and out of the cold. And also move the weight back to the rear axle.
My hope is to install two additional 100 watt solar panels and four Lithium batteries. I am thinking four will be enough as one can discharge Lithium more than 50%. (I think I remember that?) Also, since Lithium absorbs a charge so much more efficiently. I don't think the few hours on the generator will matter.
One of the possible conundrums is the engine batteries. Ideally, I would think that they should be Lithium also? That way all your charging sources can be programmed for Lithium? Three sources - solar - battery charger - alternator(s).
I wish I knew what I was talking about.
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When I started looking at installing an Inverter/Charger, I was going to use Xantrex. But after research, I went with the Samlex EVO-2212 Inverter/Charger. After I installed the latest firmware, I was able to enable the Lithium charger settings. I may later enable generator auto start.
Battle Born LiFePO4 can be discharged to 25% without hurting the battery life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock
Can't use lithium to start your engine. 100A limit per battery.
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I still have the stock Ford chassis lead-acid battery. I see no reason to change it.
100ah Battle Born batteries have a 200 Amp Surge Current (30 Seconds). With four 100ah Battle Born batteries, I have an 800 Amp Surge Current (30 Seconds). I have had no problems starting my gas generator. It needs about 600 cranking amps.
The diesel generator in an Isata 5 may need more cranking amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinthekeys
I now know that the chassis alternator would need to have a programable regulator or require an external regulator, or a DC to DC programable charger to safely charge the house lithiums from the engine's alternator. I also see those items as obtainable. Presumably one could also change out the trucks alternator to a programable one (assuming the stock on is not).
For those who are interested in this upgrade. This is an informative thread. I wonder why somebody would read it. And then post remarks about how they are not interested in this upgrade. How is that helpful information?
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I talked to Battle Born about the stock engine alternator issue. He said with it was not an issue when you have four or more 100ah Battle Born batteries. For less than four, you would need a LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager for your house batteries.
Final Thought: Get a Battery Monitor (State of Charge meter) like the Victron BMV-712 Smart. You need one even if you stay with lead-acid. Learn how many amps you are using and how many amp hours you have left. Without a State of Charge meter you are only guesstimating your percentage of discharge. It is like having a 'fuel gauge' for your battery. With it I learned the engine alternator was putting out 80-100 amps.
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