Low voltage

[Kenny kustom]

At the site today, the ems kept kicking out due to low voltage.

How often have you seen this?
Doubtful we will be back at this spot again, but curious if this is a common occurrence?

Time to add a Hughes to the basement?


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[itat]

I've had my PI EMS for 3-4 yrs. and it's shut down power 2-3 times. Always due to low voltage. Once was for our entire stay at a local Provincial Park earlier this year. In hindsight, I probably should have spent a little extra and bought the Hughes Autoformer instead of the EMS.

[TURBS]

Once last year in Nashville Tennessee.
Hot, humid and a full park.
First time in 6 years .

I think this is more common on 30 amp campers?


2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"
2016 nights camped "14"

[jeff64]

Had it happen 1X this year so far and it was hot and rainy. Shut down like 7X that day, came back up 3 min later. Guess it works as advertised

[RV_Fan44]

Would you recommend initially getting a Hughes Autoformer to stop the problem before it starts?

Thanks!

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by RV_Fan44

Would you recommend initially getting a Hughes Autoformer to stop the problem before it starts?



Thanks!

The only way to stop it, is either kick out half the campers or upgrade the CG electrical system.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by itat

I've had my PI EMS for 3-4 yrs. and it's shut down power 2-3 times. Always due to low voltage. Once was for our entire stay at a local Provincial Park earlier this year. In hindsight, I probably should have spent a little extra and bought the Hughes Autoformer instead of the EMS.

An Autoformer does not take the place of PI EMS other than it does provide some surge protection. Even if the power condition light does not illuminate on the Autoformer, its not going to tell you why like the PI EMS will. And the Autoformer will do nothing for high voltage.

High voltage is just as common as low voltage in older campgrounds which were wired before most RV's had AC, Microwaves etc. Depending on how they are wired, and where your site is located on the circuit, someone pulling a load further down the circuit can cause a high voltage condition on your site even though your site was showing low voltage before they applied the load. Be especially on alert at places where 2 sites share a common pedestal.

[uhduh camping]

Battled this all week. We had 50 amp service. Power averaged about 108V the lowest was 98V. Pedestal was equipped with 50,30 and even 20 all had same voltages. I had to bypass EMS just to get some power. CG was not concerned in the least. They said no one else as ever made a complaint and my equipment might be faulty, of course I showed them the EMS and volt meter readings which were exactly the same. Then they preceded to tell me I was tampering the park equipment by testing their receptacles with my volt meter and could evict us. Prince Gallitzin State Park PA btw.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by uhduh camping

Battled this all week. We had 50 amp service. Power averaged about 108V the lowest was 98V. Pedestal was equipped with 50,30 and even 20 all had same voltages. I had to bypass EMS just to get some power. CG was not concerned in the least. They said no one else as ever made a complaint and my equipment might be faulty, of course I showed them the EMS and volt meter readings which were exactly the same. Then they preceded to tell me I was tampering the park equipment by testing their receptacles with my volt meter and could evict us. Prince Gallitzin State Park PA btw.

Customer is never right [emoji34]



2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"
2016 nights camped "14"

[itat]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

An Autoformer does not take the place of PI EMS other than it does provide some surge protection. Even if the power condition light does not illuminate on the Autoformer, its not going to tell you why like the PI EMS will. And the Autoformer will do nothing for high voltage.

High voltage is just as common as low voltage in older campgrounds which were wired before most RV's had AC, Microwaves etc. Depending on how they are wired, and where your site is located on the circuit, someone pulling a load further down the circuit can cause a high voltage condition on your site even though your site was showing low voltage before they applied the load. Be especially on alert at places where 2 sites share a common pedestal.

Thanks. Do you have both?

I've never seen the voltage be too high, just too low and a hot skin condition at another camper's site.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by itat

Thanks. Do you have both?

I've never seen the voltage be too high, just too low and a hot skin condition at another camper's site.

Yes I do have both.

We are regulars at a PA state park that only has 30 amp sites. Two sites share a common power pedestal that has 2-30 amp receptacles and 2-20 amp receptacles. The site we always reserve is at the end of the electrical circuit. I guess there are in the neighborhood of 16 sites or so on this one feed. When the park is busy, such as a summer weekend, as long as no one is on the site next to us (shared pedestal) we only have low voltage issues if a lot of the other sites are occupied between us and where the power is fed from, and people are running the AC or electric heaters. When someone occupies the site next door is when it gets interesting. As soon as they put any kind of a load on, we then get a high voltage condition. I have seen it as high as 142 volts. It has been brought to the parks maintenance staffs attention numerous times, and they have always said everything is fine. They even had a power company rep there once. He explained to me why it happening which had a lot to do with people in the middle pulling too much load, and us being on the end. I forget the exact terminology he used.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

The only way to stop it, is either kick out half the campers or upgrade the CG electrical system.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

Yup!

I was curious by the comment, since nothing is going to magically increase the voltage!

Voltage drop is due too much current over too much distance for a given conductor size. In what may have been a properly designed campground electrical grid, adding too many pedestals eventually exceeds that original design. Throw in the fact that billy-bob may be the "electrician", and you can have a lot of problems.

Upgrading the campground electrical system can be very expensive. Although I'm not making an excuse, I can see where a campground may be reluctant to do so.


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[Kenny kustom]

Ours jumped up to 119 in the evening and next am.
Could be the rain.. Lol.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[Kenny kustom]

I wonder, if using an autoformer, or starting the generator would be better?

You don't just pull more power out of thin air. Someone is losing.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

I wonder, if using an autoformer, or starting the generator would be better?

You don't just pull more power out of thin air. Someone is losing.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

Not really......from Hughes....

"How Does It Work?

At first we are tempted to say very ‘well’. But this may not be the answer you are looking for!

Autoformers are used in industries to stabilize voltage and lower the operating cost of equipment. The Autoformer has 5 windings: 2 primary and 3 secondary. All models have surge and spike protection. When the unit is in Automatic and the park or input voltage is 116 volts or below, the output is 10% over the input. When the input is over 118 volts, the output is 2% over the input.

The Autoformer DOES NOT take power from the park.

It does not affect the park or input voltage, or make electricity.

What it is doing is changing the voltage – amperage relationship, lowering the amperage and raising the voltage. Since appliances run better on higher voltage, lower amperage, less overall power is used from the park, and better service is enjoyed from your RV

An Autoformer running at full output (50amps) will use 1 amp, but will cause appliances to cycle more often and run cooler. This will use less total power from the park."

[itat]

We're camping at Sherkston Shores RV Resort near Port Colborne, ON and Niagara Falls this week. Paid for a premium full service site and when we pulled in at 4:15pm we we're only getting 106 - 107V on the post from the 30A plug. The 50A (through my dog bone) only had 105V! Very disappointed. The park is packed and it's very warm until the sun goes down, and it's supposed to be getting warmer as the week goes on, so everybody is using their A/C. It's now 8:14pm and we're getting 110 - 111V. The A/C will run, dropping the voltage to 106V so my PI EMS isn't turning off the power. Our 13.5K btu A/C draws about 11A when running. We'll probably have to run the refrigerator on propane for the week if it doesn't improve and I'll be having a serious talk with the office about a discount.

This is the second time this year we've had voltage at under 110V at a CG. I see a Hughes Autoformer in my future.

[Learjet]

Or go to another campground with proper service. That is poor electrical on the part if that campground.

[325BH]

A couple of camps ago my EMS was kicking off several times in one day. This was due to low voltage on one leg.

Basically campground electrical infrastructure that can't handle the load.

My friends laughed at me because my "fancy gadgets were failing." A short time later the whole campground lost power. The loss of power (transformer blew at the street) was unrelated to my EMS and overall crappy campground power, however it made my friends take notice.

Once the power was out, I gave an EMS primer and explained why it was good that it cut my power even though their air conditioners continued to soldier-on.

To the uninformed, as long as the ac is running all is well. They don't want to know about any details that they cannot see.


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[myredracer]

Low voltage is a very common problem out there, esp. in the summer with a lot of AC units running. It's not due to a CG building it on the cheap or from having faulty wiring, it's due to the min. requirements of the electrical code (NEC). Up until 2005, the NEC only required 5% of pedestals had to be 50 amps and it was revised to 20%. Older CGs didn't require any 50 amp receptacles. In addition, the NEC only requires a 41% overall demand factor for over 36 pedestals/sites. Nowadays 50 amp RVs are quite common so that owners can run 2 or more AC units, electric HW heater and high demand appliances. Even 30 amp RVs can draw a lot more power than they used to. The NEC is simply waaay behind in providing for the high power demands of today's RVs. In some cases/locations, a contributing factor can also be low voltage from a power company. Some CGs/RV parks are built above the min. NEC requirements but I don't know how you'd find out in advance except maybe from reading CG reviews.

Older CGs typically have panels spread around the property and then wiring directly from there to 1 or up to 5 or 6 pedestals in a star fashion. Newer CGs have loop-fed pedestals with heavy gauge wiring between them and have less voltage drop compared to star-fed pedestals.

As an example, 9 50 amp pedestals can be wired on one feeder run of 200 amps. But for 9 50 amp RVs, a min. demand factor of only 55% is required by the NEC. So if everyone is running AC units and other high demand loads, the CG wiring can be really pushed over it's design parameters.

If you want to find a CG with the least chance of having low voltage, find one that was built after 2005 or find a site in a section with 50 amp pedestals. 50 to 30 amp adapters are a common sight in CGs. Competition for 50 amps can be fierce. Some 30 amp RV-ers will seek out 50 amp pedestals since 30 amp recepts. can be really tired and have a bad connection and this adds to the demand for 50 amp sites. Other than running a generator, the only thing to do is use an autoformer. We finally got fed up with low voltage and bought a Hughes autoformer for this season. Another good thing to have is a permanent voltmeter inside, either a plug-in or hardwired one.

[BandJCarm]

I'm plugged in here at the house, and yesterday I unplugged to do some work on camper, and when I plugged back up, I had a PE-4 error....meaning I had had low voltage even here at home at some point.........but apparently unnoticed by me. I don't know if it shut the power to camper off or not........but that's with electrician installed plug here in a residential environment.

PI EMS is worth it's weight in gold.