outside speakers .

[Rsgtivr6]

While I am an avid JL fan, I would not count out Alpine, Polk, or Infinity as good cheaper alternatives. $300 for speakers I mount, without much security, to the outside of my rig would be a bit scary IMHO. Polk and Infinity will give you solid sound quality, and Alpine is all around a good performer. These 3 brands will have some speakers in the $70-$150 range that might be a bit more economical.

Again, I would love to put the JL's on my TT, I would just be a bit worried about them.

[Rsgtivr6]

Just steer clear of the off brands like Boss, Pyle, Pyramid, etc. They are knockoff crap mostly and won't give you your money's worth.

[kozzy]

Agreed. I had Polk in my old boat. Buy one pair get one free paid like $100 and got four. And crutchfield runs that deals all the time. Their DB series sound great.

[BlakeB]

The wiring of the speakers is definitely important. In my younger years I was an installer and wiring these "out of phase" will ruin any sound. Also, for outside speakers they are in such a huge area they will never sound superb. Sound waves need to bounce off of something and come back to you to produce a great sound (especially bass)

Out of phase is running the correct + and - to the correct terminals on one speaker, but running them backwards on the other. One speaker will move out (while playing) and one will move in. The sound will be terrible.

Best FREE step to do. Pull the speakers out and make sure they are both wired IN PHASE.

If this doesnt work for better sound, a decent coaxial speaker may give better sound. It will have a midrange driver with a tweeter in the middle. Better get a marine speaker for the outside though.

[Rsgtivr6]

Originally Posted by BlakeB

Sound waves need to bounce off of something and come back to you to produce a great sound (especially bass)

Reverberation is key for sound staging, yes, but bass is non directional, so as long as you have the sub in a box, it will work (free air subs are a joke). It will use the interior of the box for the reverb. Ported or vented would be best for open air environments since it will push that pressure, a.k.a. sound, back out to you. Look at what is used for concert staging, its always a vented box. It's kind of like a turbo on a car, it reclaims all the sound pressure you would have lost on the back side and transfers it to your face for more rockin'!

If you really want to make your camper a good sound stage, you would get a component set, put the mids in the factory spots, but fish or run an external conduit up and mount the tweeters up by your awning facing straight out. This will use your awning for reverb and force the sound back down into your patio area causing it to "bounce" back of your trailer as well since your awning should slant enough to do so. This should give you the best results. Oh, and if your speaker holes dont have a baffle, i would highly suggest installing some when you replace the speakers...

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by Rsgtivr6

Reverberation is key for sound staging, yes, but bass is non directional, so as long as you have the sub in a box, it will work (free air subs are a joke). It will use the interior of the box for the reverb. Ported or vented would be best for open air environments since it will push that pressure, a.k.a. sound, back out to you. Look at what is used for concert staging, its always a vented box. It's kind of like a turbo on a car, it reclaims all the sound pressure you would have lost on the back side and transfers it to your face for more rockin'!

If you really want to make your camper a good sound stage, you would get a component set, put the mids in the factory spots, but fish or run an external conduit up and mount the tweeters up by your awning facing straight out. This will use your awning for reverb and force the sound back down into your patio area causing it to "bounce" back of your trailer as well since your awning should slant enough to do so. This should give you the best results. Oh, and if your speaker holes dont have a baffle, i would highly suggest installing some when you replace the speakers...

I dont agree....but you can try it. The idea behind compents (separate tweeters and mids) is to keep the tweeters close to the midrange but you can angle them different. i.e. in a car aim the driver side toward the passenger and passenger tweet toward the driver thus bringing the sound field toward the center of the car for a better sound.

Any old sub in a box is probably not going to sound good. It DOES need to bounce off something unless it's in a fully enclosed, VENTED box. (meaning the sub is not visible) again...you can try if ya want..


Trial and error I guess...

[Rsgtivr6]

True on the intention of a component system, but lets look at it from an outdoor sound stage perspective, not an enclosed/indoor stage. Reverb from the interior of a car facilitates the sound quality from that set up. Outside you need to make a virtual room. If you use a tweeter facing open air, the sound will get lost in the empty space that is effectively infinite in front of your camper (unless you are parked next to another). If you can "bounce" that sound back into your stage, you will keep it from escaping.

Another thought. Think of the original locations of most car highs...the dash under the windshield. this is a good way of reverberating the sound into the cabin, thus allowing crappy speakers to "sound better" by increasing the distribution through the cabin. I agree that a good set of component tweets can focus better sound quality when installed in kick plates, but they haven't installed those speakers in the dash for decades for no reason. If you focus your highs straight out from the original camper location, you will lose a lot of sound to thin air...

[Rsgtivr6]

Also, on the perspective of the sound stage. For the kick plates to be effective, you have to assume that the listening position will never change. So unless you put your lawn chair in the same spot, every time, and you are the only listener...

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by Rsgtivr6

True on the intention of a component system, but lets look at it from an outdoor sound stage perspective, not an enclosed/indoor stage. Reverb from the interior of a car facilitates the sound quality from that set up. Outside you need to make a virtual room. If you use a tweeter facing open air, the sound will get lost in the empty space that is effectively infinite in front of your camper (unless you are parked next to another). If you can "bounce" that sound back into your stage, you will keep it from escaping.

Another thought. Think of the original locations of most car highs...the dash under the windshield. this is a good way of reverberating the sound into the cabin, thus allowing crappy speakers to "sound better" by increasing the distribution through the cabin. I agree that a good set of component tweets can focus better sound quality when installed in kick plates, but they haven't installed those speakers in the dash for decades for no reason. If you focus your highs straight out from the original camper location, you will lose a lot of sound to thin air...

I see where your thinking is, but do remember tweeters are strictly directional. As for putting them on the dash...yes that is only crappy factory audio systems that get tweets on the dash. And yes..curved glass does crazy things to sound but tweeters are still directional and I doubt a flimsy awning is going to be able to bring a sound field down.

I think the tweets are not the best option for outside. We may have to take this to PM before this thread is considered hijacked.

[TURBS]

ok SOOOOOOOO i have a question .
the palominos have a sub mounted under the steps to enter the upstairs part of my 5er .

the sub is totaly enclosed in the area its mounted top to bottom and side to side and front to back

all though muffled it does produce bass you can hear and feel.

what should A guy techincally do for better sound ? or leave it as is ?

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

ok SOOOOOOOO i have a question .
the palominos have a sub mounted under the steps to enter the upstairs part of my 5er .

the sub is totaly enclosed in the area its mounted top to bottom and side to side and front to back

all though muffled it does produce bass you can hear and feel.

what should A guy techincally do for better sound ? or leave it as is ?

Could be a crappy sub honestly. I know in a lot of campers they dont put the high end stuff but who know's. Im sure that sub has to be vented to somewhere.. It needs to breathe and move some air

[Rsgtivr6]

If you are speaking for inside the cabin of the RV, I would just purchase a small home theater sub and patch it in. Then find a place to hide it. Bass is non directional, so it doesn't have to be directly in the sound field. That's why car trunks, behind the couch at home, and even in the stairs of a camper are places you find subs. They are not picky about where they thump. You just want to keep them close to the floor and out of the way. Your setup should be fine, you could upgrade to a better quality driver if you really wanted too, but placement is fine.

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by Rsgtivr6

If you are speaking for inside the cabin of the RV, I would just purchase a small home theater sub and patch it in. Then find a place to hide it. Bass is non directional, so it doesn't have to be directly in the sound field. That's why car trunks, behind the couch at home, and even in the stairs of a camper are places you find subs. They are not picky about where they thump. You just want to keep them close to the floor and out of the way. Your setup should be fine, you could upgrade to a better quality driver if you really wanted too, but placement is fine.

Agreed...100%!

How easy would the factory one be to get to and uninstall? Carefull "patching" things in though. If you run it in parallel you will cut the ohm load in half....things like to get hot and start melting i.e..voicecoils

[TURBS]

well since there is an unknown here .
the sub MAY be inside its own box under the steps .

either the case its totaly enclosed
front side is the stairs
left side is the sidewall of camper
back is a fabric covered plywood
right side is plywood side
top is upstairs floor
bottom is the main level floor

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

well since there is an unknown here .
the sub MAY be inside its own box under the steps .

either the case its totaly enclosed
front side is the stairs
left side is the sidewall of camper
back is a fabric covered plywood
right side is plywood side
top is upstairs floor
bottom is the main level floor

drill a 4" hole in one of the stairs...voila! better sound

[Rsgtivr6]

Originally Posted by BlakeB

drill a 4" hole in one of the stairs...voila! better sound

Not a terrible idea, since it will allow the sound pressure into the cabin space, however, I would toss in a port tube for good measure...

Port Tubes (2" diameter x 2-1/2" length) at Crutchfield.com

That would reduce any "whistling" or noise you might get from a flat hole

[TURBS]

Sound tube or how about a directional non closing vent diffuser such as whats installed in the ceiling for ducted a/c ?

[Rsgtivr6]

Well, off to bed before work. It was a good debate with you Blake! If you want to open a PM about it, I am open to discuss staging. I, too, spent too many a paycheck in my younger years on audio. Still do at times, lol, but now it has shifted to home audio now that we have our own home. Waiting on funds for a set of these.

Klipsch Reference RF-82 II (Black Ash) Floor-standing speaker at Crutchfield.com

But that's a different discussion for a different time. Later guys!

[BlakeB]

Originally Posted by Rsgtivr6

Not a terrible idea, since it will allow the sound pressure into the cabin space, however, I would toss in a port tube for good measure...

Port Tubes (2" diameter x 2-1/2" length) at Crutchfield.com

That would reduce any "whistling" or noise you might get from a flat hole

definatly needs a port tube but if you have access to the side of the stairs that maybe a better option for drilling a hole

[Rsgtivr6]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Sound tube or how about a directional non closing vent diffuser such as whats installed in the ceiling for ducted a/c ?

If you are picky about noise, like I am, I would port it. JL used to make excellent tuned ports, but haven't heard about them in years...