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Old 02-26-2017, 08:48 PM   #1
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Solar power - how many watts do I really need? ???

When looking at solar power everyone seems to think they have the best solution. My question is what sort of power does one really need? Obviously this is based on your usage. But to be fair you can't run your AC unit without shore / generator power so who cares about that anyhow.

Anyone point me to an article that is written by someone who actually knows what they are talking about??
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:07 PM   #2
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Online, everyone is an expert.

However, I recommend any of the sites that sell solar system components like these and provide educational videos on their products.

https://www.solar-electric.com/rv-so...ms-information

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/rv-marine

Complete RV Solar Power Solutions for Camping, RVing and Boating
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:13 PM   #3
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:13 PM   #4
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AM Solar has a lot of useful information on their website.

One thing to keep in mind when determining the size of your system is reduced solar input: as in partly cloudy day or reduced sun angle as you get closer to 12/21. If you determine you need 150 watts from the solar panels for your energy needs the panels will only produce that much under optimal conditions. If you only camp in the desert southwest one 150 watt panel will probably suffice. If you are camping in forested areas you will probably have campsites with less than ideal sunlight or direct sunlight for only part of the day so 300 watts of panels would be a safer option.

The 12 Volt Side of Life is frequently referred to on this forum. It is 15 years old but most of the information is still very relevant. Part 2 has some information specific to solar. The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:16 PM   #5
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This FAQ is particularly good:

https://www.solar-electric.com/rv-solar-power-faq.html/
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:39 PM   #6
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solar

Went to the Home Show in San Antonio this weekend. Just looking for ideas and sourcing. Talked to a couple of salesman types selling home solar systems (what a bunch of maroons). They not only couldn't think outside the box, they really didn't know how to talk the business. When I talked about putting larger home type panels on top of my RV, they came unglued.
So, don't talk to home solar guys. I had a hard time keeping a straight face when they told me the electricity was free, but I had to buy the system, and pay for install, and amortize the cost over like 50 years to get a payback (and the panel life is less than that), since my home heats and cooks with natural gas, and in the worst part of the winter so far, my electricity was 50 or 60 bucks.
As for the trailer, compute how much usage you have, and what you want to run (you want or have to have TV, and a DVD player? Have to charge your laptop, and phones? ok, larger usage, count it up). Second computation is how big a battery system are you going to need to power all that? Most Deep cycle batteries that are car battery sized (but not built for cars) are less than 50 amp hours. Even Marine/deep cycle are not really optimum. A true deep cycle battery in enough amp hours (over 200 each) is going to be expensive. You can get more amp hours for less with a larger 6 volt and hook them up in series, to get 12VDC. This is still expensive. The most expensive but best of all (so far) is the sealed gel type. zero maintenance, keep em charged and they last a long time. Still heavy and cost more. The all around top of the line is a lithium battery. Way expensive but instead of a couple hundred pounds for a serious battery bank, 400-600 amps is going to weigh around 50-60 lbs. and these are designed for this usage, so heavier connectors, and meters, There is a place in Yuma that sells and installs there. Prevost and other luxury units have them. 3,000 to 6,000 bucks. Really. Wind and Sun in Yuma. Look over their entire site, since they really school you. I may have gotten a thing or two slightly off, but their web site is gospel. There is another site in Oregon, that does total installs as well: Amsolar in Springfield OR, I bought a primer from them that explains everything quite well, including connection charts. Once you have your battery bank, you need a controller (except with the lithiums), and the panels. Look at how many amps it is putting out, and compute how long at that amerage it is going to take to charge a battery. Now start adding panels until you have enough to charge that bank of batteries on any reasonable day. Most hardware store type systems (like harbor freight, or National tool) are 15 watts each, x 3 panels, for 45 watts, but only around 2-4 amps. Not much power. Losing a little each day, so one needs also a generator back up. Even a simple 2,000 watt gen set can run a charger, and you can get a rapid jump up, but being a boondocker, I try to keep my generator usage down.
You will also have to consider brackets to mount the panels, flat of able to raise one end to direct at the sun. You will also have to consider where you park. No more parking in the shade. If you boondock, you have to get up there and clean the panels since the dust cuts down on the power you are getting.
Are you sure you really want the added expense for the so-called free power?
Here's what I use. Two deep cycle 6 volt batteries, 3 cheap-o panels not mounted on top, but on the ground to I can clean them and move them a couple of times a day to max the generated power. a controller to keep from overcharging, and a generator for occasional use to cover heavy use. No computer, no no TV, and minimal use of lights, and such. Does it work? Yes. At night the hater fan can come on in cold weather, and I never worry if the battery is going to run down.
One other example. I was broke down, parked the trailer in the rear of a car dealer, waiting for them to work on the truck. It was cloudy,and not enough light to efficiently produce solar power. However, at night the car lot lights came on, and THAT was enough on one panel to keep the batterie top notch.
By the way, look at a truck stop, and they have 12 volt flat lcd TV's.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:05 PM   #7
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Had 500W on my last Lazy Daze, only 2 golf cart batteries, but it was sufficient- most of the time. We use power as we want.

On the Foretravel I have 1200W and 2 grp8 Lifeline AGM batteries. Not enough, we have a residential Refer and residential freezer so we go in the hole a little each day.

Debating as to what I'll do on the Forester.
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankpac View Post
Went to the Home Show in San Antonio this weekend. Just looking for ideas and sourcing. Talked to a couple of salesman types selling home solar systems (what a bunch of maroons). They not only couldn't think outside the box, they really didn't know how to talk the business. When I talked about putting larger home type panels on top of my RV, they came unglued.

So, don't talk to home solar guys. I had a hard time keeping a straight face when they told me the electricity was free, but I had to buy the system, and pay for install, and amortize the cost over like 50 years to get a payback (and the panel life is less than that), since my home heats and cooks with natural gas, and in the worst part of the winter so far, my electricity was 50 or 60 bucks.

As for the trailer, compute how much usage you have, and what you want to run (you want or have to have TV, and a DVD player? Have to charge your laptop, and phones? ok, larger usage, count it up). Second computation is how big a battery system are you going to need to power all that? Most Deep cycle batteries that are car battery sized (but not built for cars) are less than 50 amp hours. Even Marine/deep cycle are not really optimum. A true deep cycle battery in enough amp hours (over 200 each) is going to be expensive. You can get more amp hours for less with a larger 6 volt and hook them up in series, to get 12VDC. This is still expensive. The most expensive but best of all (so far) is the sealed gel type. zero maintenance, keep em charged and they last a long time. Still heavy and cost more. The all around top of the line is a lithium battery. Way expensive but instead of a couple hundred pounds for a serious battery bank, 400-600 amps is going to weigh around 50-60 lbs. and these are designed for this usage, so heavier connectors, and meters, There is a place in Yuma that sells and installs there. Prevost and other luxury units have them. 3,000 to 6,000 bucks. Really. Wind and Sun in Yuma. Look over their entire site, since they really school you. I may have gotten a thing or two slightly off, but their web site is gospel. There is another site in Oregon, that does total installs as well: Amsolar in Springfield OR, I bought a primer from them that explains everything quite well, including connection charts. Once you have your battery bank, you need a controller (except with the lithiums), and the panels. Look at how many amps it is putting out, and compute how long at that amerage it is going to take to charge a battery. Now start adding panels until you have enough to charge that bank of batteries on any reasonable day. Most hardware store type systems (like harbor freight, or National tool) are 15 watts each, x 3 panels, for 45 watts, but only around 2-4 amps. Not much power. Losing a little each day, so one needs also a generator back up. Even a simple 2,000 watt gen set can run a charger, and you can get a rapid jump up, but being a boondocker, I try to keep my generator usage down.

You will also have to consider brackets to mount the panels, flat of able to raise one end to direct at the sun. You will also have to consider where you park. No more parking in the shade. If you boondock, you have to get up there and clean the panels since the dust cuts down on the power you are getting.

Are you sure you really want the added expense for the so-called free power?

Here's what I use. Two deep cycle 6 volt batteries, 3 cheap-o panels not mounted on top, but on the ground to I can clean them and move them a couple of times a day to max the generated power. a controller to keep from overcharging, and a generator for occasional use to cover heavy use. No computer, no no TV, and minimal use of lights, and such. Does it work? Yes. At night the hater fan can come on in cold weather, and I never worry if the battery is going to run down.

One other example. I was broke down, parked the trailer in the rear of a car dealer, waiting for them to work on the truck. It was cloudy,and not enough light to efficiently produce solar power. However, at night the car lot lights came on, and THAT was enough on one panel to keep the batterie top notch.

By the way, look at a truck stop, and they have 12 volt flat lcd TV's.


I'll probably just stick to my generator. Haha. Way too dang complicated. I am in Canada in the sunniest county in the country. I've got a 3500 watt Yamaha that does just fine.
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:41 PM   #9
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I also find solar too expensive and complicated.
Especially when I only have to run my Honda 2000i for 2-3 hours, every 3-4 days.
Plus we usually camp in forested campgrounds.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phln View Post
When looking at solar power everyone seems to think they have the best solution. My question is what sort of power does one really need? Obviously this is based on your usage. But to be fair you can't run your AC unit without shore / generator power so who cares about that anyhow.

Anyone point me to an article that is written by someone who actually knows what they are talking about??
It ain't that easy. Is is not possible for someone / anyone to know your needs; starting with "do you really need solar power"... we all are different and with different needs... its going to require you to do your homework. I'll throw a couple sites links for you that really helped me.
WW

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Power Inverters | Frequently Asked Questions About Power Inverters | DonRowe.com
Lots to look over including, Watts used by common appliances (your's may vary)

Handy Bob Solar
FAQ... PLEASE READ THIS FIRST
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

You could always find a system done right and copy it, but whats the fun in that!!
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfWhistle View Post
It ain't that easy. Is is not possible for someone / anyone to know your needs; starting with "do you really need solar power"... we all are different and with different needs... its going to require you to do your homework. I'll throw a couple sites links for you that really helped me.
WW

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FAQs
Power Inverters | Frequently Asked Questions About Power Inverters | DonRowe.com
Lots to look over including, Watts used by common appliances (your's may vary)

Handy Bob Solar
FAQ... PLEASE READ THIS FIRST
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

You could always find a system done right and copy it, but whats the fun in that!!
X2, once you know YOUR needs then help is available on the forums.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Online, everyone is an expert.

However, I recommend any of the sites that sell solar system components like these and provide educational videos on their products.

https://www.solar-electric.com/rv-so...ms-information

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/rv-marine

Complete RV Solar Power Solutions for Camping, RVing and Boating
That covers it.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:36 PM   #13
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Home solar and Rv solar two very different animals. Home systems are designed to be high voltage systems while Rv systems are 12 V.
By the time you figure in transmission losses, controller efficiency and panel efficiency, a 300 Watt will product about 250 usable watts. Depending on where you camp, it may be more energy efficient to park in the shade and run a small generator.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:43 PM   #14
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I have a 75 watt panel flat on the roof of my 32-foot class A. Plenty for heat, lights, water pump, etc. Usually by 2 PM my two 6-volt batteries are fully charged. I don't have a residential refer and if I want to watch TV or use AC I run the generator. Simple too hook up. Two wires through a charge controller to the battery.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:44 PM   #15
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"The Doc" recommends 1.21 gigawatts.

YMMV

Now back to the serious and helpful stuff......................
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:44 PM   #16
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It all depends on what you want to do. I have 300 watts and 2 group 31 AGM bats. We go camping at least once a month. I short time between trips in winter, I dont winterize. Set heat on 40 and bats keep charged. This is a 32 ft. class C. I can also rum 3 roof fans and a 40 inch tv for six hours and not kill bats or run gen or shore power. Works for me.
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:34 PM   #17
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Ok, let me make this easy for you.

You want as much battery and as much solar as you can stuff onto your camper. You will have rainy days, tree shade, other shade, that will prevent you from getting max output.

However, you do not have to do this all at once. Plan a max system and get an mppt controller that will handle your max. Then put as many panels as you can afford on top. Use 8 gauge wire to the controller, everything in parallel. Much heavier gauge to the batteries. You will hear arguments about serial vs parallel, but any shade will always work better in parallel. And you will have shade. Also, more bypass diodes in your panels are better. Same reason.

Don't get hung up on 6 volt batteries in series or 12 volt. Both work fine and the end result is more or less the same. You are interested in the max 12volt amphours. Get either good wet cells, check them often, for the least expensive approach. There are advantages to AGM and lithium, but the expense goes up pretty quick. AGMs and lithium accept a faster charge rate and are easier to maintain.

I run 840 watts into 800 amps of AGM. Never regretted the extra capacity.

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Old 02-27-2017, 07:01 PM   #18
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Solar is the ideal way to go.

First off if you look at past posts on any solar or generator subject you will never see the words "I love the sound of my generator".
With Solar and plenty battery storage you will seldom need a generator. I don't even take mine anymore. I boondock 95% of the time. In the quiet.

I have 2 165 watt panels a 1000 watt puresine inverter and 3 AGM batteries. Running a 50" TV and DVD, furnace all night and lights galore inside and out. I have never even drained my batteries to 1/2 charge. We camp the entire month of October hunting, no generator. I spent less than $1000.

If I could only get my buddies to go solar we would have a much quieter camp.

I installed 9 KW of solar on my house, my power bill is now $9 a month AC in the summer and radiant heat in the winter. In 3 more years I will have mostly free power.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:14 PM   #19
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We are in the same vein as Hankpac and RushRich. Our unit is smaller (Vibe 6501) than theirs, but we have a single, true deep cycle battery, an unmounted 100w panel and charge controller. Spent a month on the road last summer with 80% of our stops boondocking or CGs w/o hookups. Never ran out of power for fans, lights, TV, charging laptops, phones, cameras. We carried our Honda eu2000 but never fired it up.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:25 PM   #20
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Solar sure has its uses. I do not pretend to be any sort of expert with solar. Anyway we have one 165 watt panel on top of our motor home and have had the same on the last two trailers It maintains our batteries and with that in mind we had to start the generator only to use the micro wave or to make toast. Cost for the install was $1,000
but it is a great option.




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