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Old 10-19-2018, 11:47 AM   #1
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Solar vs. Harbor Freight

I've just bought a Roo 19 that has a Zamp plug-in that, I presume, is connected to my 12-volt marine battery.

I was wondering if I could reverse the polarization of the Zamp plug-in with an SAE adapter and plug in the $149 100-watt solar from Harbor Freight?

Please keep your answer simple so I can understand. I've read lot of FR's solar talk, and it's for an electrician, not me.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:32 PM   #2
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Yes.
Better to hook up straight to the battery from the charge controller as the Zamp wires are a bit smaller than they maybe should be.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brl1956 View Post
I've just bought a Roo 19 that has a Zamp plug-in that, I presume, is connected to my 12-volt marine battery.

I was wondering if I could reverse the polarization of the Zamp plug-in with an SAE adapter and plug in the $149 100-watt solar from Harbor Freight?

Please keep your answer simple so I can understand. I've read lot of FR's solar talk, and it's for an electrician, not me.
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Originally Posted by MtBiker View Post
Yes.
Better to hook up straight to the battery from the charge controller as the Zamp wires are a bit smaller than they maybe should be.
A 100 watt panel will only put out 6.5 amps max. The Zamp 12 AWG plug wire is enough for <20 feet.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rk06382 View Post
A 100 watt panel will only put out 6.5 amps max. The Zamp 12 AWG plug wire is enough for <20 feet.
Sorry, but an extremely elementary question here ... so, you're saying that I'm already running internally the Zamp 12 AWG plug on my '15 Roo, and to plug in one 100w solar panel won't require re-wiring straight to the battery?
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:17 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by brl1956 View Post
Sorry, but an extremely elementary question here ... so, you're saying that I'm already running internally the Zamp 12 AWG plug on my '15 Roo, and to plug in one 100w solar panel won't require re-wiring straight to the battery?
12 AWG wiring is good for 15-20 amps when running 12v power as long as the wire length is under 15 feet. for one 12v solar panel, your current wiring size fine and does not need to be changed. you will however, want to check the polarity of the plugs. some of the Zamp connectors are wired backwards.

Edit: i see you have figured out the polarity issue already. the rest is plug and play!
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:16 PM   #6
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Your presumptions are correct... the Zamp plug is connected directly to the battery. (usually with 12 ga. wiring as mentioned)
And yes, the Zamp plug is reverse polarity from standard so an adapter is necessary unless you'd rewire one of the plugs.

Remember, there's no charge controller in the Zamp plug so make sure the panel you purchase has one.
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:48 PM   #7
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Your presumptions are correct... the Zamp plug is connected directly to the battery. (usually with 12 ga. wiring as mentioned)
And yes, the Zamp plug is reverse polarity from standard so an adapter is necessary unless you'd rewire one of the plugs.

Remember, there's no charge controller in the Zamp plug so make sure the panel you purchase has one.
Well, that brings up another question regarding the charge controller ... Does my '15 Roo have a controller for the solar? And where on the trailer should I look for it? If you don't think it has one, should I buy one? What kind?
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:10 PM   #8
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No, the trailer does not come with one.
If you are buying Harbor Freight panels, they have controllers. Some of their 'kits' have everything.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:40 PM   #9
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My Zamp wiring from the plug to the battery is 14 gauge wire on my 2016 2504s. I found that out when I reversed polarity so I could plug in my 1.5 amp battery charger/ maintainer. Jay
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:15 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jay2504 View Post
My Zamp wiring from the plug to the battery is 14 gauge wire on my 2016 2504s. I found that out when I reversed polarity so I could plug in my 1.5 amp battery charger/ maintainer. Jay
14 AWG is still good for 10 amps at <10 foot.

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Old 10-20-2018, 08:16 AM   #11
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I might shop around , many "kits " have items that you do not need or want !
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:22 AM   #12
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Renogy.com has some good tutorial info as well as good panels and controllers. I suggest you get a controller that can handle 2-3 times the capacity if the initial panel purchase. It will allow you to purchase additional panels later on if needed without the expense of another controller. Solar ready is just a wire from the roof to the battery compartment.
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:47 AM   #13
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I think that you're finding that the 'xyz' Solar ready camper is really a good advertising sales scheme... not necessarily anything 'wrong' with that idea, but just that it's very confusing to the buying public.

Solar 'Ready' sounds very plug-n-play, and it can be, but the fact is, most new owners, and those with no 'solar' experience, simply don't understand readily what this means to them, though it 'sounds' very good.

The reality is that Solar Ready really only means that someone at the factory simply provided some simple wiring and a exterior 'plug', that connects to your battery bank.

YOU have to provide the solar Panel(s), and YOU have to provide the solar Controller, which is where the real expenses comes in.

The fact is, the little 'pre wiring' that the factory 'gave' you is nothing more than a few dollars of wire that you probably would already have with your purchase of panels and controller anyway. It's not a bad deal, but just not what folks are really 'thinking' that they are getting.

Now, I don't mind having the option of the 'plug-n-play' outlet on the side of the RV, especially if you don't RV much and just want to have a panel or two outside while you are 'off grid', but most folks who have a serious view of solar are probably not going to be sitting their panels outside when they park, but are going to have them mounted on the roof, where they will then have the wiring to the batteries run internally.

I make these comments as akin to the other confusing discussion on this forum: the Sirius/XM 'Satellite Ready' scheme... it's the same. You don't 'get' a Sirius satellite radio module/unit included in the RV, you are only getting some wiring that 'allows' your current radio to 'control' a Sirius unit, IF you purchase one! WOW : /
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:30 PM   #14
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It is likely that the Zamp connection buys you little, if any, advantage. All it is is a connection with wire to the battery. You must add a charge controller and panel.

Since most charge controllers can handle up to 4 x 100 watt solar panels, it is POSSIBLE that you'll regret using the Zamp wiring IF YOU UPGRADE later.

A bigger issue is that many charge controllers are not designed to be out in the weather. You can get a 100 watt panel and a weather-proof charge controller for that panel, but a better option would be to get a conventional charge controller and locate it inside the rig where you can see its display to monitor what's going on. This enables you to add more panels in the future.

Here is a kit that's complete: You can get this with one, two, three, or four panels...buy one now and and more later. Renology is another good brand. These are also available with stands for the panels for placement here, there and everywhere.

My personal preference is to mount the panels to the roof - set it and forget it. If you live in a cloudy area or camp in the shade, add more panels...up to 4 total. Then set it and forget it. No fiddle-farting around with unloading the panel and placing it. No staking it down for wind.

I have a single panel and this controller on my PUP. I have one group 24 battery. In sunny Colorado, it keeps my battery full EVERY DAY... even in less than ideal conditions. But if you live in a cloudy area, add another panel for a single battery and that will do it. No muss, no fuss.

Mount them on the roof, run the wire through the sidewall using a "gland" near the roof. Run the wire thru a cabinet that provides a place to mount the charge controller where you can see it, then continue the wire straight to the battery. Done.

While you're at it, use HEAVY wire. #8 or #6 should do it for up to 30 amps (the output of a 4-panel system) over a short distance.

My solar system just completed it's third season. It's been hailed on countless times (no damage). I have my original 2014 dealer-installed cheapo Deka brand battery. That's 5 seasons of camping...and the battery is still going strong. We always boondock...always. I NEVER have to charge my battery with the generator. (I use the generator exclusively to run 120 volt appliances such as the microwave and coffee-maker...for about 15 minutes at a time.) I do "condition my battery by hooking up to shore power for about 24 hours on return from a trip of up to 5 days, and I hookup to shore power to cool the fridge the day before I depart. This keeps the battery in tip top shape. I also top it off with distilled water about once a month.

The Harbor Freight kit may be fine, but what happens when the wind comes up? How much monkey motion of setup and tear down can it withstand? It only works when it's setup...and you must move the thing now and again to point it in the general direction of the sun.

Meanwhile, what if a panel gets damaged? Panels are essentially interchangeable with the Windy Nation, Renology and many other brands.
Plug and play...what about the HF item?

I'd go for a more permanent installation that is ALWAYS charging your battery and maintaining it, when parked, when in storage, when camping, when driving. If the sun's up, it's charging...no setup, an no tear down. Nobody's gonna walk off with my solar panel when I'm not looking.

But I respect your choice.
Whatever you do, going solar is worth it. Do it right, and live within your battery's capacity to deliver power (about 35 amp-hours for a single 12-volt group 24), and you will NEVER run out of power if you have enough solar.
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:59 PM   #15
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Is not reversed I plug mine panel into zamp plug and charges battery just fine I don't see why everyone thinks it is reversed if it is then forest river hooked up wrong
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jimmoore13 View Post
....

While you're at it, use HEAVY wire. #8 or #6 should do it for up to 30 amps (the output of a 4-panel system) over a short distance.

....
You gave a link to 'COPPER CLAD ALUMINUM' wire. Aluminum has 61 percent of the conductivity of copper, but has only 30 percent of the weight of copper. That means that a bare wire of aluminum weighs half as much as a bare wire of copper that has the same electrical resistance. Aluminum is generally more inexpensive when compared to copper conductors. But I have had corrosion with aluminum wire and do not think the few dollars you save is worth it.
Whenever I find an aluminum wire I always use Noalox anti-oxidant on all the connections.

10 AWG copper solar wire is good for 30 amps at >10 foot. I have two pairs of 10 AWG copper solar run up through my refrigerator roof vent. I plan to add more solar panels as I have installed a 50 amp Victron MPPT charge controller.
My roof:
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Wire reference charts:
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Copper to Aluminum Conversion Chart
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:34 PM   #17
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brl1956, since you have pointed out that the electrician talk isn't for you let me comment this way.
At $150 harbor freight kit is a good value for what it is. It isn't going to last forever, it isn't scalable easily like a custom system could be. But, it works! I have Renogy set up. Customized for my needs and scalable in the future. I spent a lot of mony figuring out what i needed. My brother shared up on day at the camp ground with his Harbor kit and initially I scoffed at it. After an entire season of observing the performance of the harbor kit I would recommend it as an inexpensive entry into the solar game. Wit that said there are few things I did to the harbor system to optimize the performance.

1. I replaced cheap batter clips with properly sized heavy duty crimp terminals at batter connections.
2. I weatherized the controller by mounting it in a nema 4x enclosure.
3. I added in line fuses to protect the controller and wiring.

I had also contemplated shortening the cables to minimize to minimize voltage drop but held off to determine whether the panels would be moved often. They were positioned well with proper angle an view of the sun, fastened down with tent stakes at ground level and didnt require moving all season. Inn the end I never did cut the cables as voltage held up well.

Long story but the point is a system doesn't need to be expensive, complex and fancy to work well. Think about what you need and how you will use it then optimize performance with simple upgrades to weak elements of simple inexpensive package designs.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by rk06382 View Post
You gave a link to 'COPPER CLAD ALUMINUM' wire. Aluminum has 61 percent of the conductivity of copper, but has only 30 percent of the weight of copper. That means that a bare wire of aluminum weighs half as much as a bare wire of copper that has the same electrical resistance. Aluminum is generally more inexpensive when compared to copper conductors. But I have had corrosion with aluminum wire and do not think the few dollars you save is worth it.
Whenever I find an aluminum wire I always use Noalox anti-oxidant on all the connections.

10 AWG copper solar wire is good for 30 amps at >10 foot. I have two pairs of 10 AWG copper solar run up through my refrigerator roof vent. I plan to add more solar panels as I have installed a 50 amp Victron MPPT charge controller.
My roof:
Attachment 189724
Wire reference charts:
Attachment 189725
Copper to Aluminum Conversion Chart
I think it was an honest mistake to list the aluminum wiring. Aluminum has its own set of problems. I for one would not be using it.

"Here’s the issue, aluminum is soft, brittle and prone to oxidation – all characteristics that cause electrical fires. According to several consumer product safety commissions, aluminum-wired homes are 55 times more likely to reach fire conditions than homes wired with copper." now bounce that home down the road.

Debunking the myth: Aluminum Wiring - Is My Home Safe
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:11 AM   #19
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Is not reversed I plug mine panel into zamp plug and charges battery just fine I don't see why everyone thinks it is reversed if it is then forest river hooked up wrong
If you have the Zamp connector in the photo below, the wiring convention is just opposite the industry standard. If you use a Zamp panel/controller, you are OK. If you use another manufacturer panel./controller, you need to reverse the wiring. This is the reason for the warning label.
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:20 AM   #20
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I have a 2018 Salem with a plug in for solar. I thought it was already connected to the batteries. When I plugged in my suitcase solar panels I got no readings at all. Discovered the wires are just naked ends zip tied under the rig. I have to buy ring terminals and attach them myself.
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