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Old 01-31-2014, 03:20 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jevanb View Post
I guess the GM plant off van Slyke Rd, flint. MI does not exist. because thats is where my truck is made/assembled and their are prob 500 trucks in the lot as we speak right now, I drive by that plant everyday. As for the HD ram, yes... their is also a silverado plant in texas and indiana made by americans
The GM assembly plant in Arlington,Texas currently produces the following nameplates:

GMC - Yukon,Yukon Hybrid and Yukon XL

Chevrolet - Suburban,Tahoe and Tahoe Hybrid

Cadillac - Escalade and ESV

I believe Arlington is the only GM assembly plant located in Texas and no pickups are produced there.
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:21 PM   #52
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Hey mucho take it easy there , no one said the plant next to your house was some great big cover up.

Every truck/car and its parts are Not made in one plant. Parts are made all over the world and no one, including me, said parts for and by extension American Vehicles aren't made in some capacity somewhere in America everyday. Tundras for the US are manufactured in San Antonio, Texas (look it up here Toyota Tundra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

If you use the web site I listed in my previous post you will see Silverados have a 61% US made/assembled ratio, while Tundras are 80% , Ford F series 5.0L 60%, Dodge Ram 70%, cadillac SRX 21%, and Honda Civic 70%. Incidentally you could go look this up on the governments databases for automotive manufacturing for the US import and export but ABC made a nice little website for it.

My point is the who's better race is getting very level. My parent company alone makes electronic parts for at least 50 different Air, defense, and automotive companies all over the world, most right here in America. We use the same component parts for all of them just arranged a different way. So when it comes down to it, they're all equal when our part is concerned. And I would wager in this day and age that this same thing is happening in thousands of parts that go in many different vehicles. So the likelihood of failure for that component part is is level across the industry.

Now leaving my political views and economic views of this global automotive market out of it. I drive a Ford because I like it and it does what I like for the money I have. Does it break down, Yes but arguably less than my other trucks I've had. Will I buy another Ford, maybe it always largely depends on the $s I have at the time. Am I bias towards Ford, Probably they seem to cost less over the life of the vehicle (cost for repairs and purchase averaged over the life of the vehicle) than the other fleet trucks my company has had, and of my own experiences.

So in the end. Which did come first the chicken or the egg? Feel free to debate amongst yourselves.
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by jar3316 View Post

My parent company alone makes electronic parts for at least 50 different Air, defense, and automotive companies all over the world, most right here in America. We use the same component parts for all of them just arranged a different way. So when it comes down to it, they're all equal when our part is concerned. And I would wager in this day and age that this same thing is happening in thousands of parts that go in many different vehicles. So the likelihood of failure for that component part is is level across the industry.
I hope for your customer's sake that is not true!!

You may wanna do a little checking on that one.

If an electronic component is used in aerospace (Aircraft, both commercial and military, defense, space etc) it will be a "Class 1" piece of gear, which means it has the highest quality standard,both in individual components, assembly (solder, board testing etc) and cycle testing to prove reliability.

The same can not be said for cars and toaster ovens as an electronic component failure on one of these is usually not quite as catastrophic

Class 2 stuff is usually found in the medical field and class 3 will be automotive, TV's, stereos etc.

(I am certified in Class 1 repair)

But you are right about Ford, they rule.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:16 PM   #54
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I hope for your customer's sake that is not true!!

You may wanna do a little checking on that one.

If an electronic component is used in aerospace (Aircraft, both commercial and military, defense, space etc) it will be a "Class 1" piece of gear, which means it has the highest quality standard,both in individual components, assembly (solder, board testing etc) and cycle testing to prove reliability.

The same can not be said for cars and toaster ovens as an electronic component failure on one of these is usually not quite as catastrophic

Class 2 stuff is usually found in the medical field and class 3 will be automotive, TV's, stereos etc.

(I am certified in Class 1 repair)

But you are right about Ford, they rule.
The "Class 1" items you speak of may also be subject to the requirements of the FAA Technical Standards Order (TSO) if used in commercial (civil) aircraft. Not all components used in commercial or civil aircraft are required to be TSO certified.

Not sure where the "Class 1" label comes from - probably a manufactures or industry term.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:07 PM   #55
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As an auto manufacturer supplier in the tooling industry, I can tell you over the last 15-20 years the shift has been to the so called "foreign" automakers. The "Big 3", had always been GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Now my Big 3 are Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. I've seen 1 "Domestic" tool come through my shop in the past 3yrs, when 13yrs ago that was 90% of my business. So while most of these sites rate how "American" an auto is, if they were to dig deeper into where the tooling is made for these "Domestic" vehicles, you would see an even bigger gap, with even more "foreign" vehicles coming out on top. While I make good money from Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VW, Mercedes..., it saddens me that Ford, Chrysler, and GM can't keep more of the work here in N. America(Canada has been hit just as hard).
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:17 PM   #56
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The "Class 1" items you speak of may also be subject to the requirements of the FAA Technical Standards Order (TSO) if used in commercial (civil) aircraft. Not all components used in commercial or civil aircraft are required to be TSO certified.

Not sure where the "Class 1" label comes from - probably a manufactures or industry term.
Yes, I may have generalized a bit...
The components that I meant are in the flight control, navigation, EW type systems, anything to do with saftey, mission critical etc will all be class 1 items from tier 1 suppliers. Granted, parts of the MUX system will probably not be class 1.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:39 PM   #57
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Yes, I may have generalized a bit...
The components that I meant are in the flight control, navigation, EW type systems, anything to do with saftey, mission critical etc will all be class 1 items from tier 1 suppliers. Granted, parts of the MUX system will probably not be class 1.
There are many items that are subject to TSO requirements for components used in civil aircraft such as altimeters,seats and seat belts and even certain hardware,such as turnbuckles.

When you say "mission critical" I have to think of military aircraft requirements. The TSO requirements extend to aircraft safety only.

Once again,I think you're speaking of manufacturers and industry terms when you speak of Class 1 items. Their are no "Classes" in the TSO requirements as spelled out in 14 CFR 21.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:45 PM   #58
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http://www.ipc.org/4.0_knowledge/4.1...april-2010.pdf

Per IPC 610
Class 1 -- General Electronic Products
Includes products suitable for applications where the major requirement is function of the completed assembly. (Radio Shack)

Class 2 -- Dedicated Service Electronic Products
Includes products where continued performance and extended life is required, and for which uninterrupted service is desired
but not critical. Typically the end-use environment would not cause failures. (Sony)

Class 3 -- High Performance Electronic Products
Includes products where continued high performance or performance-on-demand is critical, equipment downtime cannot be
tolerated, end-use environment may be uncommonly harsh, and the equipment must function when required, such as life
support or other critical systems. (Medical, MIL, and Space)

Just because it goes in the air, space, or battlefield does not mean it is built to class 3. Only Life critical systems MUST BE built to Class 3. The rest is up to the customer.

Incidentally Many parts in vehicles are made to class 3 ABS modules and Air Bag modules to name a few.

Theres a job in here right now that has always been class 3 and the Customer (gov. contractor) is having it built at a class 2 now, because their customer (gov.) has decided it does not need to be class 3. Its a part we have built for over 15 years, will we cheapen up the build for the end user (soldiers) NO we simply took out some of the testing requirements and purchased some non crucial non mil cirted parts to save the money our customer wanted off.

that old story about the $25,000 hammer. It wasn't the hammer it was all the testing and ***** covering that came with the $25 hammer.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:19 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by jar3316 View Post
http://www.ipc.org/4.0_knowledge/4.1...april-2010.pdf

Per IPC 610
Class 1 -- General Electronic Products
Includes products suitable for applications where the major requirement is function of the completed assembly. (Radio Shack)

Class 2 -- Dedicated Service Electronic Products
Includes products where continued performance and extended life is required, and for which uninterrupted service is desired
but not critical. Typically the end-use environment would not cause failures. (Sony)

Class 3 -- High Performance Electronic Products
Includes products where continued high performance or performance-on-demand is critical, equipment downtime cannot be
tolerated, end-use environment may be uncommonly harsh, and the equipment must function when required, such as life
support or other critical systems. (Medical, MIL, and Space)

Just because it goes in the air, space, or battlefield does not mean it is built to class 3. Only Life critical systems MUST BE built to Class 3. The rest is up to the customer.

Incidentally Many parts in vehicles are made to class 3 ABS modules and Air Bag modules to name a few.

Theres a job in here right now that has always been class 3 and the Customer (gov. contractor) is having it built at a class 2 now, because their customer (gov.) has decided it does not need to be class 3. Its a part we have built for over 15 years, will we cheapen up the build for the end user (soldiers) NO we simply took out some of the testing requirements and purchased some non crucial non mil cirted parts to save the money our customer wanted off.

that old story about the $25,000 hammer. It wasn't the hammer it was all the testing and ***** covering that came with the $25 hammer.
When I see "IPC" my FAA mind thinks Illustrated Parts Catalog,but I don't think that what it means here.

Where is this manual/standard used?
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:35 PM   #60
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When I see "IPC" my FAA mind thinks Illustrated Parts Catalog,but I don't think that what it means here.

Where is this manual/standard used?
Pretty much the Electronics Industry only

IPC-A-610 REV E

IPC-A-620 Wire Harnesses
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