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Old 10-08-2013, 06:35 PM   #51
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who here has worked on their car/truck and thoght.... i want to get my hands around the neck of the engineer who designed this. or designed it to be placed in such a way that if you didnt have a wrist that bent in 3 directions, and fingers that turned around completely, you needed a 300 dollar wrench for a 1 time 5 minute job?
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #52
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who here has worked on their car/truck and thoght.... i want to get my hands around the neck of the engineer who designed this. or designed it to be placed in such a way that if you didnt have a wrist that bent in 3 directions, and fingers that turned around completely, you needed a 300 dollar wrench for a 1 time 5 minute job?
If you stop and think, there is usually a reason behind why they did it like they did. You may not agree, but ...
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:03 PM   #53
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the reason probably being they wouldnt have to ever work on it would be my guess.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:49 PM   #54
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who here has worked on their car/truck and thoght.... i want to get my hands around the neck of the engineer who designed this. or designed it to be placed in such a way that if you didnt have a wrist that bent in 3 directions, and fingers that turned around completely, you needed a 300 dollar wrench for a 1 time 5 minute job?
We were remodeling our office at work several years before I retired. Every couple of days, one of the engineers - electrical, mechanical, or somebody - would come up with a change that had to be made in the plans...usually at a point when the general contractor had to re-do something he had just finished. The general contractor was fond of saying "There are only two places for engineers: On a train, or under it."
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:09 PM   #55
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We were remodeling our office at work several years before I retired. Every couple of days, one of the engineers - electrical, mechanical, or somebody - would come up with a change that had to be made in the plans...usually at a point when the general contractor had to re-do something he had just finished. The general contractor was fond of saying "There are only two places for engineers: On a train, or under it."
Isn't saying that about engineers almost like killing the messenger? I oversaw several times in my FAA career in reviewing what the airline we oversaw calls Engineering Change Orders (ECO) and they all required justification before being approved for implementation.

Sure the mechanics griped about having to re-do work they already did,but they didn't know the reason Or reasons behind the ECO's.

Yes Sometimes I asked myself or the airline what the reason for the ECO was and in most cases there was usually a good reason.

I'm sure sometimes there might be a reason to want to throw an engineer under the train,but not always.

Remember there are always two sides to every story.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #56
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Isn't saying that about engineers almost like killing the messenger? I oversaw several times in my FAA career in reviewing what the airline we oversaw calls Engineering Change Orders (ECO) and they all required justification before being approved for implementation.

Sure the mechanics griped about having to re-do work they already did,but they didn't know the reason Or reasons behind the ECO's.

Yes Sometimes I asked myself or the airline what the reason for the ECO was and in most cases there was usually a good reason.

I'm sure sometimes there might be a reason to want to throw an engineer under the train,but not always.

Remember there are always two sides to every story.
In my career, there was usually justification for ECO's brought on by customer requests in probably 75% of the time and had nothing to do with functionality of the design.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #57
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In my career, there was usually justification for ECO's brought on by customer requests in probably 75% of the time and had nothing to do with functionality of the design.
I have no problem believing that and if I understand what you're saying correctly here is that it's the customer who usually initiated the design change after the final design was frozen.

So is that an engineer's fault - I think not.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:57 PM   #58
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the reason probably being they wouldnt have to ever work on it would be my guess.
No. its because speed (and cost) of assembly rules the roost in automotive plants. You design a system that was 3 parts that had to be bolted together and is now two parts which saves 6 seconds of assembly time and 37 cents in cost, you will get a nice letter of praise in your file and bonus, and a dinner out with the wife at a expensive restaurant on the company nickle.

Design something that makes it easier on the owner to service but costs an extra 15 seconds on the line to assemble, and you would get career counseling.

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Old 10-08-2013, 11:03 PM   #59
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I have no problem believing that and if I understand what you're saying correctly here is that it's the customer who usually initiated the design change after the final design was frozen.

So is that an engineer's fault - I think not.
Phewww...I was just repeating what the guy said to me. Actually, about 50% of the change orders were customer requests, but not all.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:28 PM   #60
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Phewww...I was just repeating what the guy said to me. Actually, about 50% of the change orders were customer requests, but not all.
Like I said - two sides to every story and perhaps two sides to every change order.

I know that's a very broad statement - my point being is sometimes,but not always, engineering changes are either required by some valid reason (s) or by customer request.
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