Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Sparksy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 8
Air Bags for Duramax??

I have a 2004 Chevy Duramax 2500. I will be purchasing a Stealth ck3012 fifth wheel in the near future. Do i need to get air bags for my truck to help level it out? I have heard that i dont need them with a smaller fifth wheel but i have also heard that they make for a much smoother ride. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks
__________________

__________________
Sparksy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 05:24 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Dave_Monica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,329
Any idea what the pin weight loaded will be?

Dave
__________________

__________________


Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
Dave_Monica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 05:52 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Sparksy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 8
Here is some information I pulled from their website. Let me know if you need anything else in order to help me out.

Dry hitch weight- 2,118
GVWR- 12,278
Cargo Carrying capacity- 4,400
Unloaded vehicle weight- 7,819


I am brand new to fifth wheels so I hope this is the information you needed. Thanks a ton
__________________
Sparksy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 06:07 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
milzat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Prairieville, Louisiana
Posts: 1,927
Yes, air bags.
__________________
milzat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 06:18 PM   #5
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,156
Exclamation Yikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksy27 View Post
Here is some information I pulled from their website. Let me know if you need anything else in order to help me out.

Dry hitch weight- 2,118
GVWR- 12,278
Cargo Carrying capacity- 4,400
Unloaded vehicle weight- 7,819


I am brand new to fifth wheels so I hope this is the information you needed. Thanks a ton
Yikes, is that dry hitch weight right?

That is 1 ton of pin weight not counting the weight of the hitch that you are putting on the 3/4 ton pickup. That is also the UNLOADED pinweight. Once you put 4400 pounds of personal stuff on board you will be pushing a ton and a half of pin weight.

I think you need to rethink that camper.

My 2008 GMC Sierra with Duramax and Allison Tranny is maxed out at 9,200 pounds Gross Truck weight. With the diesel engine weight, my truck is 7700 pounds rigged for travel (full fuel, hitch, generator, and family - and no we are not fat!). That only leaves 1500 pounds MAX PIN LOAD. ( I am running about 1150 pounds). I do have a little trouble since with the camper on, my front axle load is pretty close to the 4500 pound maximum. (about 4250 pounds)

Air bags do nothing to increase GVW. That is all front and rear springs, axle, and brake drum/rotor size so that you can carry and stop that beast.

Just because the "book" says you can pull over 15,000 pounds does not mean that you can carry the front of the trailer in your truck bed.

The 1 ton (single AND dual) has the same 15,000 pound rating as the 3/4 ton pickup. Have you ever wondered why? The tow rating is based on drive train. The max load carrying capacity is based on suspension.
__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 06:33 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Sparksy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 8
First off, thanks a ton for your rapid responses.

I was under the impression that the Stealth CK3012 was a smaller fifth wheel in which my 2500 Duramax would have no issues pulling. I have been told by numerous sales people that it is all about the GVW when determining if i could pull it. I believe my Duramax is rated for 15,500. I had no idea i needed to factor in suspension, axles, and everything else.

So basically, you would find it unsafe to pull a load like this?

Thanks again for your help
__________________
Sparksy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 08:12 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Dave_Monica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,329
Your truck probably has a GVWR of 9200 lbs and a rear axle weight rating (RAWR) of 6100 lbs (label should be on the driver's door). As herk7769 has said, your truck loaded ready to camp will probably exceed 7200 lbs depending on the # of passengers, leaving less than 2000 lbs available for the hitch and the trailer pin weight. That would be to not exceed the GVWR of the truck. A lot of people would say that you're okay exceeding the truck's GVWR as long as you don't exceed the truck's RAWR of 6100 lbs. Go weight the truck (front and rear axles) loaded, ready to camp. You'll probably find that the rear axle weight is around 3200 lbs leaving 2900 lbs available for the hitch and pin weight before you reach the RAWR.

What is the weight limit you can put in the garage? As it's mostly behind the camper's axles, it will also reduce the pin weight. I would guess that with a couple of quads, youd have a loaded pin weight of less than 2500 lbs. Reading a thread called real weights on RV.net youll see lots of ton diesels towing 12,500 lb 5ers with a 2500 lb pin.

Dave
__________________


Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
Dave_Monica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 08:52 PM   #8
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksy27 View Post
I was under the impression that the Stealth CK3012 was a smaller fifth wheel in which my 2500 Duramax would have no issues pulling. I have been told by numerous sales people that it is all about the GVW when determining if i could pull it. I believe my Duramax is rated for 15,500. I had no idea i needed to factor in suspension, axles, and everything else.

So basically, you would find it unsafe to pull a load like this?

Thanks again for your help

Dave has a valid point about the toys moving that weight aft.

How FAR it moves will depend on how much stuff you pack in the basement storage area. The camper is like a giant teeter totter. Light kid on one side at the end of the board, can balance a heavy kid close to the pivot.

Aircrews work with this all the time. Center of gravity too far aft, the nose pitches up and you crash. Too far forward; nose too heavy; not enough elevator authority to fly; you die. Too close to the center of lift; aircraft unstable and you need a computer to work the flight controls. Computer fails; you die. Center of Gravity just forward of the center of lift and the elevator works just fine and life is good.

Another tidbit. You NEED between 15% and 25% of the camper weight ON THE PIN to keep the camper stable on the road. At your max trailer weight of 12,500 pounds, the absolute MINIMUM pin weight you must have is 1875 pounds not counting hitch in the bed of your truck. At 20% (Optimum) that pin weight rises to 2500 pounds. At 25%, the maximum pin weight you get 3125 pounds (WAY over your TV's rating).

Below the minimum pin weight the camper wants to wag your truck and you will find yourself sawing the crap out of the steering wheel to steer a straight course. Since I run about 18% myself to keep the gross Vehicle weight below 9200 pounds, my front tires wear A LOT faster than my rears. I accept that because I have no choice. I am running my TV close to 9100 pounds now. Yes, I technically still have slightly over a 1000 pounds left on my rear axle, that would put my TV over 10,000 GVW.

Remember that the salesman's job is to sell you the biggest rig possible for the most money possible. (They lie.)

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-fw.shtml

I found it! Use this calculator to determine the maximum safe camper for your tow vehicle. Good luck Sparksy

This is also cool for adjusting the calculated weight above.
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-adjust-gvw.shtml
__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 10:32 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Sparksy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 8
Thank you so much for all of your help. I am going to use the calculator Herk provided me with to get a better idea of what my truck can handle. I was completely sold on my Stealth CK3012 and now have no idea what to do.

I guess I still have a lot to figure out before I can make an educated decision. Thanks everyone for your help and I'm sure there will be more questions in the near future! I am brand new so bear with me, a lot of your advice (terms) are rather unfamiliar but i am doing my best to learn as much as possible from all of you.

Thanks again!
__________________
Sparksy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 08:10 AM   #10
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksy27 View Post
Thank you so much for all of your help. I am going to use the calculator Herk provided me with to get a better idea of what my truck can handle. I was completely sold on my Stealth CK3012 and now have no idea what to do.

I guess I still have a lot to figure out before I can make an educated decision. Thanks everyone for your help and I'm sure there will be more questions in the near future! I am brand new so bear with me, a lot of your advice (terms) are rather unfamiliar but i am doing my best to learn as much as possible from all of you.

Thanks again!
Sparksy believe me when I say "There but for the grace of god!"

I was looking at a Montana! 14,500 pounds and the dealer ASSURED me it would all be fine on my 2500HD with the Duramax. (Butt Munch).

When I spotted the floor plan of the MUCH smaller 8526 Flagstaff I loved it.
I figured towing the 9,100 pound trailer would be a BREEZE with my "monster truck."

Wow was I ever wrong. I STILL had to watch tranny temps pulling in the Rocky Mountains.

Loading has to be carefully planned and I weigh at our local CAT scale before EVERY trip. My 2500HD is pretty much maxed out GVW wise almost every time we go (especially when we for to the Keys).

Without getting a 1 ton or better, leave the big campers to the duallies. You will be MUCH happier.

I am just SO happy I got the lighter camper. Yea, there are things about the Ultralite I hate (crappy lightweight frame and bumper for one) but after special ordering and modifying my TV I would have hated to sell it and buy a bigger one much more.
__________________

__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
air bags

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.