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Old 01-14-2018, 11:36 AM   #1
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General Question is this too much for an F250 Diesel?

Sorry if duplicate, I had searched but failed to find my answers. Considering a 324 CG
New 2018 Keystone RV Outback 324CG Toy Hauler Travel Trailer at Big Daddy RVs | London, KY | #JB452428-IN
Tow vehicle 2003 F250 7.3 Diesel with 180K on it. Plan on replacing the transmission on my schedule so as not to break down in BFE.
Trailer weight 8,000 lbs
Garage weight 1,200 lbs bikes, tools spares etc. (FJR 1300, KTM 200)
Water and propane 600 lbs (wonít always carry water)
Everything else clothes food kitchen stuff ??? maybe 600 lbs?
Total trailer weight maybe 10,400
Truck bed, Generator, assorted spares, hitch 350
Truck weight 8,800
Me, Mama and dog 400
All in rig could weight 19,200

I have no experience towing trailers but have been towing boats for some time, 25 ft at 6500lbs total and truck behaves very well with that load. In general, I have several questions on moving up to a 36ft toy hauler.
Is 36ft total at 10,400 too much using a good WD with sway control for single axle F250?

Should I look at a smaller Toy hauler? I donít want to start too small and resale to move up but also do not want to go too big and be strapped to mega sites or have a vehicle that is too difficult to handle. I prefer to rely on the experiences of those who have been there done that instead of what the salesman tells me.


What am really asking is the number seem to fit but is getting to 10,400 lb trailer on a 03 F250 Diesel going to be uncomfortable to drive using a good WD and Sway control hitch? Is 37ft trailer too big, will it fit into many sites? Just, in general, am I biting off too much or should I look at some smaller Toy haulers? I do not want to rely on what the salesman tells me but on opinions of those who have towed various rigs and weights.

Thoughts or comments on what I have not thought of.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:43 PM   #2
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I would guess you would be over your payload weight.

Your truck weighs #8800. Plus you and mom, the dog and a cooler plus gas likely #800. So the truck is ##9600. Max is likely #10,000. The hitch weight of likely #1500. Over payload by #1100.

Good question. Really good equalizer hitch?
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:01 PM   #3
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Personally I think that you are borderline on your rig but depends on how far and type area that you plan on traveling. ( Long trips / mountains etc.)
Hard to beat the 7.3 Fords weak link is the transmissions.

Looking at the listing you gave I would make sure that the camper has two ACs one for a 36 foot trailer is not enough in my opinion (We had a 36 ft 5th wheel toyhauler)

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Old 01-14-2018, 01:41 PM   #4
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Hard to say without all the info what is the payload capacity of your truck
Your looking at least 1500 pounds of young weight you said passengers is 400 lbs and another 350 in gear in the bed. So we are at 2250 lbs of cargo
More the likely you would be better off putting all the cargo in the camper. Toy haulers are toung heavy because they figure the weight is to be added to the garage
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:44 PM   #5
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Guys I stand a tad corrected.
Door tag says
GVWR 8800
GAWR 4800lb front
GAWR 6084lb rear

so am I correct in assuming the truck cannot weigh more than 8800 and each axle cannot carry more than listed
or
I can carry up to the max on each axle regardless of total weight?

I did some checking and it seems that the F250 itself may weigh say 7400 lbs ( I will get it weighed) so does that mean I can not add more than 1400 lbs to the truck including weight applied by hitch? If that is the case it does not leave me very much room for hitch weight regardless of the amount I am allowed to pull.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:57 PM   #6
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There should be a yellow tag that says cargo capacity
That is the difference between the gvwr and the weight of your truck
You can not exceed 8800 lbs
Axels are only one of several factors that make your gvwr
Frame brakes and suspension play a role also
Just because you swap in axles that can handle 8000 each doesn’t raise how much you can carry
Yes the dsl trucks have great towing but because of the weight of the engine it kills cargo capacity
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:20 PM   #7
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100% answer.

Load the truck ready to go with fuel and stop by a scale. Pilot etc. $14

Your trailer will likely be #1500. The toy area adds to the tongue weight a bunch. Add that to the truck weight. How much over the legal limit is OK?

The limit is the total or the axle weights. Both!
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:40 PM   #8
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Legally I think I have to rule the 324CG out. IF my truck weighs 7400 lbs I have only 1400 lbs for hitch weight, passengers and stuff in the truck. The listed tongue weight is 985 call it 1000. With the forward garage and putting 1100 lbs in there, I am almost certain my tongue weight would go over 1400 lbs. With a WD hitch I would likely not be over the individual axle weight rating but would exceed the 8800 GVWR.
Wow really Ford, a Diesel truck that can't pull a 10K trailer.

I expect if there ever was an accident and I was over GVWR I would be guilty of something.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:29 PM   #9
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Your truck is able to pull more then 10k just not a tt set up. It will tow a 10’ plus hay wagon because it puts very little weight on the truck.

The problem is tounge weight the bare minimum is 10% of the trailer weight and once you get over 55 with that little tounge weight sway will start to take over

People want big heavy dsl engines in light duty trucks so the manufacturers make them. Heck My 99 suburban half ton could have had a dsl engine
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:54 PM   #10
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Ha! I had a half ton suburban with a diesel, that 6 something. Would not piss hard for a train load of them. Took the diesel out and put 454 in it. Ran great and with the right tire and gears got 17 mpg.
Anyway I see my dilema with the front side load toy hauler. I really do not want to go much smaller or change trucks, my truck is trusty, I like it and its paid for.

I wonder if a toy hauler that is rear garage would change my tongue weights much?
Check the specs on this;
https://www.funtownrv.com/product/ne...thss-583426-28
and notice where the axle is located and where the garage is. It seems that as I load the garage the tongue weight would drop. If I had the actual measurements is it simple math to see where the tongue weight would wind up?
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:59 PM   #11
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Yes. Might be a little low. Easy fix. Move the drinks up front.

Although, it is unlikely anyone would ever test you.

I made a mistake buying a 2500. A 3500 was only a few hundred dollars more.

We purchased a fifth wheel with as low a hitch weight as we could.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:02 PM   #12
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you would need real world weights to even come close
But you are looking at a gross weight of 11000 so bare minimum tounge weight at full load is going to be 1100 pounds
Too light on the tounge weight and the tail will wag the dog.

What you are looking at assuming nothing in the bed and the passengers you listed in your first post a trailer that will tip the scales around 6000 pounds gives you a tounge weight at 900 pounds
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTBadDog View Post
...

I wonder if a toy hauler that is rear garage would change my tongue weights much?
Check the specs on this;
https://www.funtownrv.com/product/ne...thss-583426-28
and notice where the axle is located and where the garage is. It seems that as I load the garage the tongue weight would drop. If I had the actual measurements is it simple math to see where the tongue weight would wind up?
I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out tongue weights as they relate to toy haulers...and I'm with you on keeping your truck...IMO the best diesel motor Ford ever used.

What I found is that toy haulers are considerably different from one to the next and how they are loaded only complicates things. Due to the typically higher cargo capacity they are designed tongue heavy to make if difficult for dipsticks to load in such a way as to take too much weight off of the tongue. It would be very difficult for anyone to guesstimate with the trailer you linked unless they own that trailer. -As you noted...the load in relation to the axles is key...as is where the water, fuel tank (if equipped) and any other weight is located.

As far as easy math...in theory, if you have a known starting weight (and I'm not talking about anything on a sticker ) you can get close but the problem is figuring toy length and the weight distributed over that length. Guesstimation and a tape measure. I used this type of math to figure out exactly what effect I was having on the front of my tow vehicle. -Most will tell you to go to the scale to figure that out but again the problem for me is I put different toys in the garage and I'm not going to the scales to figure it out every time. For this reason I bought a hitch with a scale so I know what effect I'm having every load. -Not perfect but common sense and a little math makes me feel better. It sounds like your problem is figuring this stuff out first...and I may have just complicated it for you? But you seem to be thinking this through so hopefully it is helpful.
https://www.engineersedge.com/calcul...e_levers_1.htm


I can tell you with my unit that I can vary the tongue weight by a few hundred pounds depending on how I put motorcycles in the garage. From about 1000 to 1400 and that's with a trailer that grosses 10,000. On the lighter tongue weight number I gave you that would be about 9,000lbs with one bike aft to just over the axle.

One more thing you mentioned earlier about length. After looking at the places we wanted to go (parks and such) I decided before purchase to limit the length...I'm glad I didn't go any longer.

Good luck.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:27 PM   #14
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I only speak for myself. But if it were me and I had that truck in your circumstances, I'd buy that camper, have them set me with an Equalizer WD hitch, and go camping!

My only concern is all the miles on the truck. But other than that, that set-up wouldn't concern me at all.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:51 PM   #15
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My thought when I read these type of threads is why would you buy a bumper pull of this length and weight? Especially a toy hauler? Just get a fiver and be happier all the way around.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:55 PM   #16
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I think you will exceed your payload / GVWR on the truck and be very close to trailer limitation.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:30 PM   #17
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BigH, yes it does complicate not having the trailer with me and even more so not having bought it yet! What I m trying to do is not make a mistake I could have avoided by thinking first. It seems pretty apparent that a front side load garage will put me over by a LOT. Rear garage I think I would be OK. I will see if the builder can supply me with actual dimension so I can calculate what effects weight and position have. It really should be simple, it is just levers and math. As you said I will also need to know where the water and holding tanks are located. It may be that the tongue weight might actually go down or remain neutral if I were to go with a rear garage.
As a side note you can get a load cell scale on ebay that will weigh up to 5000lbs. if one were to want check their loading under various conditions.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5000-LB-cap...19.m1438.l2649

KFX, I know many would just load it up and go but my concern is if I were overloaded in any way my insurance would deny a claim regardless of who was at fault. I have seen this with knuckheads pulling twin big block boats with a half ton pickup. Skid off the road or catch a ditch and police report list what is towed, insurance adjuster denies claim and all repairs go on your dime. Worse yet what if someone were to be hurt? Who gets sued when insurance says no? I was somewhat concerned with the truck at 160K but with a new tranny and full service, It should be good for another 100K. I do full service on truck up to and including replacing brake lines. For what new trucks are going for I think I have to stick with my old F250.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by NMWildcat View Post
My thought when I read these type of threads is why would you buy a bumper pull of this length and weight? Especially a toy hauler? Just get a fiver and be happier all the way around.
I can't answer for everyone but after consideration it was easy to rule out a fiver...We need to use the bed of the truck. I can take three motorcycles, two bicycles, a grill (not a weenie cooker), two very comfortable chairs (not fold ups), wood, generator, spare propane and two kayaks over 12 feet long to the destination.

'Happier all the way around' is being able to do the things we like to do...the camper is a place to eat, rest after a long day and a tool to get us plus our things to places where they can be enjoyed.
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:12 AM   #19
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My toy hauler hitch changes by a couple pounds depending on my garage load. The hitch weight actually decreases cause my bikes are behind my rear axle. Get a Hensley Arrow or Pro Pride hitch and at least you can eliminate sway and w/d issues. Sway where the dangers lie. My toy hauler was awfully scary to pull fully loaded with all that weight in the back before I got my Hensley. Now it pulls like a 5th wheel.
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:48 PM   #20
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KFX, I know many would just load it up and go but my concern is if I were overloaded in any way my insurance would deny a claim regardless of who was at fault. I have seen this with knuckheads pulling twin big block boats with a half ton pickup. Skid off the road or catch a ditch and police report list what is towed, insurance adjuster denies claim and all repairs go on your dime. Worse yet what if someone were to be hurt? Who gets sued when insurance says no? I was somewhat concerned with the truck at 160K but with a new tranny and full service, It should be good for another 100K. I do full service on truck up to and including replacing brake lines. For what new trucks are going for I think I have to stick with my old F250.
I totally understand and its 100% your call on this. But I have seen others use the same logic regarding insurance claims. But if that were the case, couldn't an insurance company deny a claim if you wrecked while speeding? What if you run a stop sign and hit someone? If you're driving under the influence, do they accept no liability? They may not like you for having a crash but I doubt they have any way of denying you coverage for a wreck while insured.

You do what you feel safe doing and have a blast. There's nothing like the RV life. I certainly don't want to try to sway someone into doing something they're not comfortable with. But I also hate to see it when someone settles for less than what they really wanted because of overreactions and overly dramatic stories based on no real merit.
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