GVWR mismatch - Page 3

riznfall · 08-17-2015, 08:42 AM

I'm not doubting that. I do believe that my axles are rated correctly. But I don't think the king pin is. To me it doesn't make any sense that the GVWR is just shy of 21k and my pin box is rated for 18k. That seems wrong to me. I feel the pin box should be rated for a minimum of 21k. Makes sense to me.

Tim
2015 Ram 3500 CCLB dually
2015 39R12 Vengeance touring edition.

Ultraboy · 08-24-2015, 10:18 AM

riznfall, I got the same story last week from my dealer. "That is the correct pin box for your 5er, there is not a heavier rated pin box available." So, no help there. The aftermarket is full of 20,000 lb pin boxes with air ride technology that won't void Lipperts frame warrantee, so I'm gonna bite the bullet and replace my pin box, if nothing else but for peace of mind. Looking at the Reese 20,000 lb goose box right now, as I already have a turnover ball hitch in the truck.
"It's always something"

**ependydad** · 08-24-2015, 12:45 PM

As is being discussed in another thread, I think this is something that should be reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...nt/index.xhtml

Especially if you're blown off by your dealer or FR.

papabear1 · 08-24-2015, 02:47 PM

I plan to post an update very soon on how FR handled my issue. It may help some of you who share the same concern about your GVWR.

**Herk7769** · 08-24-2015, 06:54 PM

Have you contacted Lippert directly?

I also think your pinbox is incorrect for a 20K+ pound GVWR camper.
Don't stop pushing until you get an answer that makes sense to you.

So far I, for one, don't believe that for a minute.

papabear1 · 08-25-2015, 10:42 AM

To all,

I originally posted this thread because I discovered a mismatch between my pin - box and the weight certification sticker on my unit. My pin box was rated at 18K and my unit at 21,370lbs.
When I first contacted FR (warranty department) they seemed confused, not believing there was an issue.

I engaged with FR and Lippert off and on for about a month. Eventually FR admitted to a mistake in labeling; their solution was to send a new label.

I did not accept that. After more aggressive negotiation they agreed to put a new pin box on my unit. They promised to make good on the 21370 GVWR; thus would require modifications at the factory.

My unit was returned a few weeks back with a 21K pin box. Warranty admitted that the factory came up short. No frame mods were req'd to replace the original 18K with a 21K. So, I ended up 370 lbs short on the capacity I paid for.

For all the hassle, FR extended my factory warranty by 4 months and gave me two nights of free camping.

In the end, I'm thankful for what they did. They could have ignored my concerns.

However, after researching the NHTSA website, I've determined this has happened before. Their fix is appears to be issue new labels; and not necessarily address the concerns of the customer. See the XLR recall for perspective.

Warranty believes only a few Vengeance models were wrong. I'm not sure I agree. My VIN ends in 203; I took pictures of one in the showroom that had the same pin-box issue, it had a VIN that ended around 150. So, did an entire production run get mislabled or just a handful?

My advice to all is to know your equipment and educate yourselves.

A complaint to the NHTSA might be worthwhile, but is likely to only generate a recall from FR that is resolved with labels alone.

If you want the capacity you paid for, fight FR hard to get your pin box upgraded.

papabear1 · 08-25-2015, 10:45 AM

Sorry for grammar errors on previous post...typing on a cell phone in a hospital waiting room.

chpence1 · 08-25-2015, 03:50 PM

Details are / were very much appreciated. Good job.

Ultraboy · 08-26-2015, 09:05 AM

Papabear, thanks for the update and all your hard work on this topic. I'm at a crossroad on what to do next. On one hand I'm wanting to pursue the same route thru FR, and get a new properly rated pinbox. I am only about 70 miles from Elkhart, so that's not a big deal. On the other hand, I'm tired of constantly removing and reinstalling the heavy B&W Companion hitch from my truck before and after each camping trip, as I use my truck for work, and need the flat bed space the B&W turnover ball provides. Additionally, I'd love to have air ride technology in the pin box, so I'm seriously considering the "Goosebox" which is 20,000 lb rated and has an airbag and two shocks. Not only does it fit my frame, but it is approved by Lippert.
Papabear, can you provide some contact info on who you talked to at FR? BTW, my 2014 Vengeance 39R12 VIN ends in 00026.

Thanks again

2014 Vengeance 39R12
2012 F-350 LB DRW Diesel

riznfall · 09-02-2015, 12:33 AM

Good info papabear. I have yet to contact lippert or fr warranty about it. Like I've said before. I have questioned it several times with the dealer and continue to get the same type of answer. For life of me. I can't figure out why they would even use an 18k pin box when GVWR is just shy of 21k.

Tim
2015 Ram 3500 CCLB dually
2015 39R12 Vengeance touring edition.

riznfall · 09-09-2015, 10:55 AM

I just received a recall notice for the labeling. I do plan on finding out if they are planning to put a label on that says 18k. If that is the case I plan on fighting FR for a 21k king pin.

Tim
2015 Ram 3500 CCLB dually
2015 39R12 Vengeance touring edition.

Ultraboy · 09-09-2015, 02:33 PM

Got mine today as well. Looks like a label change, and, if it is, that ain't gonna do it for me! In part the recall letter says:
"What is the defect?"
"The federal certification label, tire info label and the cargo carrying capacity label have the incorrect GVWR. The hitch head is rated at 18,000 GVWR. The labels show GVWR's in excess of 20,000 pounds. The hitch weight is approximately 3000 pounds."
"Evaluation of the risk to the vehicle/towable related to the recall"
"The GAWR for all the units are 21,000 pounds. The upper deck structure is rated for an optional 21,000 GVWR hitch head."
"What is FR going to do?"
"The replacement parts are available at your dealer."
It goes on to say that the dealer will replace the labels.
The "Remedy process" is estimated to take .1 hours! That's 6 minutes, so I don't think a new pin box is included, lol.
Very convenient that the AXEL weight rating is 21,000 and the pin weight is 3000.
I think they should just put the "optional" 21,000 lb pin box on there.
Now I'm wondering what the new labels will say regarding cargo weight, etc.

riznfall · 09-09-2015, 02:50 PM

That's all the recall is. To put new labels on showing a GVWR of 18k. I have already spoken with my dealer and he confirmed it with the labels for my trailer. I have emailed forest river that this was unacceptable and that a 21k pin box should be installed. No reply as of yet. Also another thing that still concerns me is that my axles are only rated for 18k. I did verify that today when I was taking a picture of my current labels. Now is that because of the pin weight that the truck is carrying?

Tim
2015 Ram 3500 CCLB dually
2015 39R12 Vengeance touring edition.

NickBoyer186 · 09-09-2015, 05:00 PM

I have a 2015 Forest River 39b12 and have the same issues. My pin box said max 18k... the side of the trailer claims a GVWR of over 21k LBS. So, I agree with the above comments - to me this is false advertisement on Forest River's part. I haven't been perusing the issue much solely because the axles are only rated at 18k. So yes, to be "legit" you would need 3 next axles and a new pin box. I agree with you guys, I paid for this trailer because it had such a high GVWR. I hope forest river makes right on it, because a new label isn't going to satisfy me, I feel cheated and mislead.

Ultraboy · 09-09-2015, 05:42 PM

Agree with the above, however, my three axels are plainly marked "7000 lb." Like the rest of us, I bought it because of the 6000 lb cargo capacity (among other things) Last time I went across the scales, I was 19,300. Reducing my GVWR to 18000 is not what we paid for. I'm getting in touch with the dealer, FR, and NTSB. This just ain't right!

**ependydad** · 09-09-2015, 08:44 PM

It is very common for axles to be less than the GVWR because the truck carries the hitch weight.

In fact, with non-toy haulers, the GVWR is typically the axles + hitch weight.

The pin box still is wrong, though.

Ultraboy · 09-12-2015, 11:17 AM

I emailed Mark Markham today, telling him that a 3000 lb. reduction in my GVWR was not going to be satisfactory. This is not what we bought and paid for. I told him I wanted the Goosebox. I was nice about it, and didn't threaten litigation or any other BS, just wanted what we paid for.
We'll see what happens......

riznfall · 09-12-2015, 12:09 PM

I also emailed him and in addition I also emailed Calvin folk. I received a call from Calvin on Friday. He told me to contact my dealer to have them order the 21k pin box. I stopped by my dealer and he said that he'd talk to Calvin and get it ordered.

Tim
2015 Ram 3500 CCLB dually
2015 39R12 Vengeance touring edition.

updhaul · 09-12-2015, 12:59 PM

Looks like a similar 2011 recall on my Wildcat TT where the 5000lb axles turned out to be 3500 lb. axles. The recall lowered the weight by 3000lb. by replacing labels. Unfortunately even that was not completed. Unfortunately for us,

Ultraboy · 09-12-2015, 02:06 PM

Riznfall, that's good news! What about the weight stickers from the recall? Are they going to still show 21k GVWR?
Anyway, if the pin box is going to be replaced, I really want some Air ride technology, so I'm going to hold out for the Goosebox, even if I have to pay for part of it.

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