New trailer woes

[bikendan]

Nice post, Fred.[emoji106]

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by pgandw

Mr. M, I've missed you.

Complaining about cheerleaders and poor quality control isn't going to change a thing.

New cars now (for the most part) have excellent quality control. But it's taken years and a doubling of prices (beyond inflation) to get there.

RVs do not have the same level of quality control, and are not the same as cars. Nor is the industry likely to retain its customer base with a doubling of prices.

As I said earlier, base your RV purchase on real world experiences similar to buying a used car, or a house. You should do a thorough buyer's inspection - you are risking thousands if you don't. It's always highly recommended to take a used car to an independent mechanic for an inspection prior to purchase. Every home buyer's agent (and many lenders require) tells you to put a contingency in the offer for a home inspection.

Why would you not do/recommend the same for an RV purchase?

dealing with the world as it is
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

Facts are facts . we're not talking auto's we are talking rv's . also talking new not used , no need to double prices to get quality control , that's the same ole excuse that's repeated over and over on here . will it change ? I doubt it, will talking about it change anything no . but facts are facts and when consumers get educated and become smart buyers things will change . talking about it here changes nothing

[AndreTheGiant]

The problem is 2-fold:


1. We, the buyers. With the internet, there is no excuse to be uneducated buyer. You knew darn well that all the RVs are crap, yet you went and bought one...Why?!?

At this point, why would the RV manufacturers spend more money on QC?!?



2. The RV industry needs more regulations. A lemon law would quickly fix 99% of the QC issues.

[D W]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGiant

The problem is 2-fold:


1. We, the buyers. With the internet, there is no excuse to be uneducated buyer. You knew darn well that all the RVs are crap, yet you went and bought one...Why?!?

At this point, why would the RV manufacturers spend more money on QC?!?



2. The RV industry needs more regulations. A lemon law would quickly fix 99% of the QC issues.

More regulations? That will certainly drive up costs. My Mom had a saying, "be careful what you wish for because it may come true". I'm a firm believer that for every 5 dissatisfied RV owners there are 100 who are satisfied.

[AndreTheGiant]

Originally Posted by D W

More regulations? That will certainly drive up costs. My Mom had a saying, "be careful what you wish for because it may come true". I'm a firm believer that for every 5 dissatisfied RV owners there are 100 who are satisfied.

Not necessarily. In a healthy business environment, it would lead to lower profits because of competition, in a bad one - to higher cost.


In the last year I've purchased new TT and 5ver (ForestRiver products), and I'm relatively satisfied with fit/finish. The 5ver came with dead AC from the factory (dealer caught and replaced during prep), which means that there is absolutely no QC at all. No one bothered to even run the appliances at the end of the line to see if they work.


I am all for ForestRiver making smaller profit and hiring a couple of guys to at least "take a look" at the product before shipping out.

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by D W

......I'm a firm believer that for every 5 dissatisfied RV owners there are 100 who are satisfied.

I am completely with you on this statement!

You name the machine and internet forum and you can find common problems that would lead people to NEVER buy that product again.

Not RV specific, but bad materials, design flaws, build quality, poor dealer interactions, etc. can really jade a persons perception of a product.

In general, these forums are full of people with problems, needing resolutions.....and that isn't bad. What we do need to realize is that just like DW said, for every few common forum complaints, there are likely tens or hundreds out there running without issue.

[AndreTheGiant]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

What we do need to realize is that just like DW said, for every few common forum complaints, there are likely tens or hundreds out there running without issue.

Not based on the backlog at my RV dealer and they don't sell MH, only towables.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGiant

The problem is 2-fold:


1. We, the buyers. With the internet, there is no excuse to be uneducated buyer. You knew darn well that all the RVs are crap, yet you went and bought one...Why?!?

This is what I'm continually dumbfounded about. That in this Age of Information, that so many do absolutely no research or education, BEFORE they drop thousands of dollars on a RV.
I spent 2 years of reading and researching before I bought my first new HTT. So I was well prepared for the PDI/walkthrough and the warranty process.
Yet, so many join RV forums, seemingly clueless about poor RV quality/fit and finish, uncaring dealers, lousy service departments and warranty difficulties.
These issues are discussed, ad nauseam, on the Internet.

That said, we have had very few issues with both our trailers when we bought them new. All issues were fixed under warranty. 10 years of wonderful experiences in our first and now 3 great years in our current TT.

[BarabooBob]

We bought one used TT that we inspected carefully before buying. We used it for 2 months before selling it. During those 2 months, we camped 45 nights and put over 6000 miles on it. We sold it for more than we paid after telling the buyers everything that we new about the camper.
We replaced it with a new TT with a floorplan that matched out needs. The dealer and I inspected the camper before I gave him any cash. He informed me of a couple of things that he repaired. I told him about a few things I wanted changed, he offered to add a larger than needed electric jack and some extras. He did the work needed. I gave him money. I have been happy. It took care on my part, work on his part sand everyone is happy. I would never buy without having everything meeting my expectations. We did have a furnace control panel quit working after 5 months but my dealer repaired it the day I returned it, let it run over night and informed me of the repair. No cost/fast service.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by bikendan

This is what I'm continually dumbfounded about. That in this Age of Information, that so many do absolutely no research or education, BEFORE they drop thousands of dollars on a RV.
I spent 2 years of reading and researching before I bought my first new HTT. So I was well prepared for the PDI/walkthrough and the warranty process. {snip}...

Absolutely agree with this! Two years for us as well.

Also, attending a large RV Show (Hershey for us) maximizes efforts to contrast and compare offerings from the various manufacturers. There are usually manufacturer reps at these events and it is a good time to ask questions.

However, be aware that EVERYONE is trying to sell you something so you must do your pre-show research. Narrow-down your choices to a handful of units, map-out where they are located at the show, and...keep your focus! There are really cool offerings out there so do your evaluation first, then take a separate day to window shop the interesting stuff. We really liked the more European design elements in the NuCamp units but had no intention of purchasing.

At the beginning of the trip to the show, we had a list of roughly 8 units that seemed to fit our camping/living criteria. We found all but one of the units at the show. The first day we noted each unit's location on the show map. Then we went to each unit and divided-up the research. My better half was in charge of evaluating the floor plans and interior appointments while I photographed weight and tire labels and crawled under each unit. (BTW - the underside can sometimes speak volumes about a unit's assembly quality.) Each of us made quick pro/con notes and went through them "apres show". That night we were able to whittle the list down to 4 out of the 7 units based on our pro/con discussions.

The next day we both went through the 4 units together showing each other the items on our lists and looking more closely at each of them. We made a list of questions and only then did we get a salesperson/rep involved in our process. At the end of the day we were down to two units.

The third day we went window shopping for interesting designs and all the available RV add-ons. By mid afternoon we collapsed in our room and didn't talk about RVs until the drive home the next day.

FWIW

[NJKris]

Theo, that sounds like my Hershey RV show experience! Even up to the collapsing in our room part, lol. BTW, my A/C problem was addressed by an authorized Aircel (mfr of the Coleman units) mechanic 22 minute drive from my home. It is actually a transmission shop! Aircel was easy to deal with, and the mechanic did all the paper work. They authorized the replacement, and I brought the trailer back when the new unit came in and they replaced it while I watched.

[jpennington]

I would like to add to this post in Quality Control. 2018 Rockwood 1910. Tiny cheap plastic locks to hold a heavy door in place broke off immediately. Seams have a plastic tape that comes right off. 1/4 inch screws rattle lose and don't hold well.

[kelticdestination]

Brevity is a challenge for me-
Purchased 8/25/18 put in storage (free) at dealership Picked up June 10, 2019
Did walkthru (had notes & did video) but Dealer open and shut the door and ssaid the lock will loosen up. Well its been 7 weeks . 1st time we were locked inside , Yep INSIDE, door wouldn't budge- Called Dealer while we were locked in, they said can I call you Back HS- Finally DH after 1/2 hour we got out.
Two weeks later Locked In Again, Inside for 1 1/2 hours. Thank God for Cell Phones, neighbors came- jiggles it finally opened up
I called and documented to dealer. We are on seasonal site 2 hours away, which they knew they said they would look into whether a mobile technician could be sent- Never contacted me back- We had a mobile tech come out and put in a new lock device in- was fine for about week- now back to same thing , You have to really bang it to close it thank you for reading.

[HappyCamperCanada]

Bought a brand new 2020 Premier 2514g the end of June. Luckily nothing major wrong with it. But after a couple of trips, I started noticing little flaws. Flaws caused by lack of attention to detail at the factory and what must be a lack of quality control. Considering the price one pays for a brand new camper, one wants everything to be in absolutely perfect condition.

First time I set it up I noticed a small tear in a curtain. A blemish in the canvas over the dinette. Not a hole though. Just a lighter spot on the canvas. I noticed that the back bunk step was loose. It rained hard the next day and about a half inch of water pooled at the bottom of the kitchen tipout. I also noticed rain water was leaking into the front storage box from the top. Near where the piano hinge is. Luckily, the dealer has been great. They fixed the bunk step. They found some leaky seams in the kitchen tip out and applied a temporary fix. They informed forest river and they are sending new tents for both the dinette slideout and the kitchen tip out. Initially, forest river wanted the dealer to send them the tents but that would have meant we would be without a camper during peak camping season and the dealer told them "no way, that's crazy." they're also sending a new curtain. The leak in the storage box lid was caused by a misplaced screw at the factory. They screwed it up, literally! The tip of the screw was sticking out through the back of the storage box lid. They should have angled the screw downward. The dealer applied some silicone or something over the hole and are currently negotiating a new storage box lid from forest river.

So all in all, nothing serious but you'd think these little flaws wouldn't have been discovered and fixed before the camper left the factory. In the end, it's costing forest river, not me.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by HappyCamperCanada

So all in all, nothing serious but you'd think these little flaws wouldn't have been discovered and fixed before the camper left the factory. In the end, it's costing forest river, not me.

In the end, the customer almost always pays the price. You just don't count the costs you are incurring.

Time spent noticing flaws. Time spent analyzing said flaws to figure out the cure. Time spent gathering/buying materials to execute the cure. Time spent actually fixing the flaw. Time testing your cure. And this assumes you fix it yourself. FR may/may not reimburse and/or supply some/all the materials.

If you have the dealer fix under warranty, you have the travel costs to/from the dealer, and the opportunity costs of not having your camper when you want to use it. FR reimburses the dealer labor at a discounted rate, and supplies parts/materials.

All FR costs are passed on to future FR buyers in the form of higher prices to cover past "warranty" costs.

The further downstream a problem is fixed/repaired, the more it costs - a fundamental axiom of quality control. The cheapest way to fix/repair is to prevent it from happening on the production line in the first place.

But without serious competition in quality - like the Japanese automakers were to US automakers in the '80s and '90s - the required cultural change will not happen. And it does take a complete cultural change from top to bottom to change to a quality focus.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time