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Old 07-27-2019, 08:34 PM   #1
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PI EMS-HW30C Surge Protector

You may want to RE-Think this one ... I just received my PI EMS-HW30C today .. reading the manual i discovered DO NOT USE WITH AN INVERTER..
Well that just sucks ... so I checked some other forums and found this ... was reading about that on another RV forum. The "bypass" on/off switch disables the EMS functions, but it doesn't take the components out of the circuit.

The problem apparently is when an inverter switches between a pure sine-wave output under normal load and modified sine-wave output under peak load (like starting A/C). Even though the EMS functions are disabled with the "bypass" switch, the switching between pure and modified sine-wave damages the components of the EMS.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:08 PM   #2
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"NEVER plug the EMS into an inverter. EMS units can be used with inverter- generators." There is a difference between plugging into an inverter and plugging MH into the SMS that has an inverter. I sent Progressive for clarification.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdRahim View Post
"NEVER plug the EMS into an inverter. EMS units can be used with inverter- generators." There is a difference between plugging into an inverter and plugging MH into the SMS that has an inverter. I sent Progressive for clarification.
good to hear this ... I have also sent a request to Progressive for info ... it will be interesting
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:19 AM   #4
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Do people use inverters for their a/c? That would be a HUGE draw for power. Iím guessing 6-8 battery bank would be needed.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:12 AM   #5
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the EMS is typically installed in the incoming shore power cord. it monitors shore power coming into it. there is also typically a transfer or bypass function in an auto transfer switch (ATS) or inverter bypass switch that keeps generator power or inverter power from connecting to the shore power cord. so the EMS is not going to ever see inverter power or generator power. (some people do install the EMS after the generator ATS so in that location it could see generator power but not inverter power.)

the only way that the EMS would see inverter power would be to install it in the output power line from the inverter. its hard for me to understand why you would ever do that.

basic electrically safety precludes allowing two power sources to be interconnected. shore power, inverter power, and generator power should never interact!
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:52 PM   #6
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the EMS is typically installed in the incoming shore power cord. it monitors shore power coming into it. there is also typically a transfer or bypass function in an auto transfer switch (ATS) or inverter bypass switch that keeps generator power or inverter power from connecting to the shore power cord. so the EMS is not going to ever see inverter power or generator power. (some people do install the EMS after the generator ATS so in that location it could see generator power but not inverter power.)

the only way that the EMS would see inverter power would be to install it in the output power line from the inverter. its hard for me to understand why you would ever do that.

basic electrically safety precludes allowing two power sources to be interconnected. shore power, inverter power, and generator power should never interact!
Not Everyone has INTERNAL generators and Auto XFR switches ... with a EXternal inverter Gen and a external Inverter (Physically Attached but not wired permanently output Wire attached has 30A female connector available). this setup is not all auto but works great Just have to flip off a few breakers when using the inverter .. with this setup it is impossible to connect two power sources at the same time.. I will most likely have to use the EXTERNAL EMS at the CG power box... ( don't need EMS anyway with gen & inverter)
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:06 PM   #7
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My PI EMS-HW30C works fine with my inverter. It's a pure sine wave inverter and as far as I know, would never switch to a MSW. With my generator it won't because of the ground neutral bonding so i just put it in bypass for the rare occasion I ever use a generator.

Personally, if it doesn't work with your inverter, I wouldn't worry that much if its a quality inverter and you just hit the bypass switch. I doubt you are running your AC off of it right?

BTW, I don't use a transfer switch either. I have a plug external to my trailer that is hardwired into my inverter. I plug my shorepower cord into it. I always have my converter turned off both at the circuit breaker and the 12V breaker after the converter.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:26 PM   #8
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My PI EMS-HW30C works fine with my inverter. It's a pure sine wave inverter and as far as I know, would never switch to a MSW. With my generator it won't because of the ground neutral bonding so i just put it in bypass for the rare occasion I ever use a generator.

Personally, if it doesn't work with your inverter, I wouldn't worry that much if its a quality inverter and you just hit the bypass switch. I doubt you are running your AC off of it right?
You are correct only the Inverter gen would be used not the battery/inverter to power the AC .. not near enough battery for that .. But still the directions say DO NOT CONNECT TO AN INVERTER and that is what the gen is. It is a Craftsman (Generac) 2300w Run, 3000w Start.. .. I am not sure what happens if it has to operate a short time in the 3Kw range while the AC starts.. On some of the other Forums folks have burnt up the Control board in the EMS. PI has replaced it but told them not to use a inverter ... the note was just added to the current installation book ... I intend to talk with PI tomorrow maybe they have a fix
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:35 PM   #9
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My bad! Sorry! I was not thinking of an inverter that is part of an external generator. Please post what the mfg responds with.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:49 PM   #10
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You are correct only the Inverter gen would be used not the battery/inverter to power the AC .. not near enough battery for that .. But still the directions say DO NOT CONNECT TO AN INVERTER and that is what the gen is. It is a Craftsman (Generac) 2300w Run, 3000w Start.. .. I am not sure what happens if it has to operate a short time in the 3Kw range while the AC starts.. On some of the other Forums folks have burnt up the Control board in the EMS. PI has replaced it but told them not to use a inverter ... the note was just added to the current installation book ... I intend to talk with PI tomorrow maybe they have a fix
It would be interesting to see what they say. Like I said, when I use my generator(inverter type) I just put the EMS in bypass because of the neutral ground bonding issue. Not sure how people burn up their control boards unless the generators are putting a lot of out of frequency components that burn up the MOVs.
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