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Old 04-17-2015, 06:19 PM   #101
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[QUOTE=schrederman;838386]Gents.... this isn't just about Forest River, but the entire industry. My TT has been OK, but I've had to fix way too much on it, simply because it's less hassle for me to do it than to hassle with the dealer and manufacturer.

With all the problems with the Forester, don't you think those issues should have been taken care of before you drove it off the lot? Good that most are done, but what about your time in dealing with them? Couldn't it have been better spent? I know mine could...

We'd prefer to drive off the lot with no issues, especially on a special order; however, they surfaced with use. For instance, how would one know there was too much cable making the DVD player blink? Or that the propane hose was kinked when the slide was in making the stove inoperable? How about missing mounting hardware on the outdoor TV? Not all are in plain sight.

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Old 04-18-2015, 03:48 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by X96mnn View Post

I want the most bells and whistles that I can afford in the floorplan I want. I do look for some signs of quality, things like weight, in my mind two trailers, exact same floorplan, one weighs 11000pds, one ways 8900pds, there is 2100pds of quality into heavier one. Other then that spend the money to get what you pay for or do not ruin the opertunity for someone who cannot afford a 6k jump in the price of an RV.

Eventually at the rate people are ranting two things are going to happen.
1: The 20k unit will cost 25k with "regulation" and your going to get the same end product. This will eliminate many of the young families getting into RVing today.

2: Regulation on the roads where registration of your camper will cost you commercial rates, (example for my camper is $260ish for recreation and $819 if it gets classifies as commercial). This will happen when a mess is made with someone hauling 19000pds with their 1500 truck and kills a politician....or lobbiest.
Really cost go up and quality stays the same . hardly . units would get better quality would go up and if 5G means you buy smaller or don't buy then so be it . your 1st statement is a real bogus statement . regulation of auto industry caused them to be safer and better quality and guess what just about everyone owns a car or two . next thing that will happen is capitalism will cause more competition and quality again will go up and in some cases costs will go down

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Old 04-18-2015, 03:52 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by vinmaker View Post
I have to put in that I am very impressed with pricing of these units. I for one am amazed at how low the prices are compared to what you get. Those of you that have ever tried to do a rebuild know that the sum of the parts highly exceeds the total when you buy a complete RV.

The factory is basically building this unit for free for you. If you needed to buy all these parts to assemble this unit to your High Quality standards, it would be more expensive.

I look at it this way. I take advantage of the RV pricing that they offer for the units and then use that savings to make any repairs or corrections I need to. Just because the unit is new does not mean it is not a fixer upper.

The capital system dictates that you spend as little money as you have to to build it and charge the most you can to sell it. Buying an RV is like buying a computer. These guys just assemble the thing. They make the box and everything in it is basically off the shelf stuff that they install. If it breaks, I just order a piece off the shelf and go on with my life.

making the units for free for us REALLY ! As far as parts what you pay for parts are 10 timee what they pay for the same part . you pay retail at about 1000% increase they get all there parts at below wholesale . the same $10.00 part that you pay for costs them maybe $2
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Old 04-18-2015, 05:23 PM   #104
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Overall, we are very happy with our trailer but it's only the second one we owned.

Like automobiles, I think the longevity greatly depends on the how good the owner takes care of it. I had a new van in 2000 that I gave to my sister a few years and it's running and lasting better than my son-in-laws 5-year old Corolla. Why? Because I took care of it and I've helped my sister maintain it. (My son-in-law is an artist and knows very little about just about anything else...but that's another story...)

For you naysayers, aren't you at least a bit thrilled when you see those 30+ year old, sun-bleached, campers parked at the grocery store? I sure am! (I've even seen some that don't look like they have a single dent or scratch on awesome is THAT?)
Rick & Karen
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:27 PM   #105
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coloradorick. your right about taking of what you own , house , cars , motorcycles , campers . my last truck slide in pop up i just sold was 18yrs old and it all worked great and looked great and that with 2 to 3 months a yr use . but it was perfect when i brought it a northstar . I like my brand new 29 xlr TH but did not think i would have so much to do the first week getting things right . i was a busy 9 hr days 4 days worth of correcting sloppy workmanship. Now the unit is starting to shine no big deal cause now i know it inside and out . but still should not have had to do much of what i had to
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:12 PM   #106
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I, too, have been one of the fortunate ones. My 2013 Flagstaff has had very few issues in the two years and 25,000 miles we have had it. What few issues I had I learned quickly my dealer did not give a rip about. So I fixed them myself. I will not go back there!
Some owners are not skilled in ways necessary to keep an RV up like others of us are.
I do believe though that FR could do a MUCH better job of choosing dealers and holding them to the job of servicing the customer, or send them packing. A lot of small issues cause owners to be duly frustrated because many dealers are exceptional liars.
Travel safe
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We were on the road to ALASKA May 6, home Sept. 13, 2016. 23 states, 3 Canadian Provinces, up to the Arctic Circle, 17,300 miles, 131 days on the road. 1 flat tire, 4 oil changes. What a beautiful trip!
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:13 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by northstar1960 View Post
Really cost go up and quality stays the same . hardly . units would get better quality would go up and if 5G means you buy smaller or don't buy then so be it . your 1st statement is a real bogus statement . regulation of auto industry caused them to be safer and better quality and guess what just about everyone owns a car or two . next thing that will happen is capitalism will cause more competition and quality again will go up and in some cases costs will go down

So I understand.

Everyone owned a brand new car or even two you know?

A company who invests 1.2 billion dollars in research and development would not past that cost on to the end user for technology or quality improvements?

If the answer is yes, in the words of Mark Twain I will not argue further with you and leave the the reason for concession in the eyes of the beholder!
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:29 PM   #108
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The different points of view and opinions are quite interesting. My background, FWIW, includes working in both boat and aircraft repair and maintenance, and experience with quality and reliability in aircraft.

Comparing quality of cars and trucks to RVs is only part of the picture. Only a motor home RV has the all the systems a car/truck does and more. Be that as it may, as many have pointed out, quality came to domestically produced cars because Toyota and Datsun and Mazda and Subaru were eating their lunch with their reputations for higher quality - at a higher price. Owners were willing to pay the extra money for the reputed higher quality. As domestic cars significantly improved their quality and could profitably stay at or under the Japanese price, the Japanese producers struggled. They countered by shifting a good portion of their manufacturing to the US.

Since the quality movement took hold in the autmotive industry, the price of new cars and trucks have generally risen faster than inflation. Building in reliability and quality generally costs more upfront, but can be cheaper over the long term. Radial tires, electronic ignition, better bearings throughout, upholstery and paint that lasts years are all significant improvements in my lifetime. In the '60s, most cars needed extensive work to go beyond 100K miles. Now most will go 200K with just routine maintenance.

The government mandated safey improvements, but has never mandated quality.

But an RV is much more like a home on wheels. So a better comparison might be mobile and pre-manufactured homes. Note that these are also generally despised for their low quality - and they don't get bounced on crummy roads nearly as much. If you want quality, you get a stick-built house (even then you may not get quality). If you want low price, you buy pre-manufactured.

Personally, do I wish my 2014 Rockwood A122 was built better? Yes, but only if it could be done without inflating the price. A little over $10K was all I was willing to pay for a toy that would only be used on average 4 days/month. I was shocked to see that the frames of the dinette seats were not square. And I had initial propane and water leaks (miscast propane line fitting and loose plumbing connections). But once the leaks were fixed, the camper does work as advertised. And my dealer did a great job with service, warranty, and recommendations.

Finally, I'm sure the door is open for somebody willing to start a company to build high quality RVs. There should be plenty of investors from this forum. Whether or not it can be done profitably is a very interesting question.

just my thoughts
Fred W
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2008 Hyundai Entourage (minivan)
camping Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming (and maybe Utah) one weekend at a time
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:54 PM   #109
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Good post with a lot of truth in it. I am willing to pay for a better trailer. I am also an A&P and know about aircraft quality. It's not all quality, but also maintenance. If your car had the same maintenance schedule as a 747, it would last forever...

I agree that the RV industry has to be profitable. But, as was said, even when the price goes up, the quality still is the same. Sure they add some solid-surface tops and a few other niceties, but the basic trailer quality still is the same. If I was well heeled enough, and young enough to make a start-up company, I think I might. There are ways to make the frame stronger and stiffer, and still just as cheap as what they're doing now. Aluminum framing in the RV walls is sparse to say the least. Granted the whole wall is pretty strong once it's all laminated up, but could be made much better, and again stiffer, pretty easily. The real problem is the fact that they want to slam one together in 6 hours, start to finish. The attention to detail is horrible to nonexistent.

I truly think with a very little effort, the RV industry could be just as profitable as they are now because there would be less warranty work being paid for, and fewer units being shipped back to the factory. A 5er being returned to Indiana and then back to an owner in Texas was a bit over $5,000-, at the manufacturer's expense, and there went every bit of profit on that unit... I'd bet. This was probably due to someone not doing everything he/she was supposed to do before the trailer moved to the next station... heck, but the unit shipped... so no harm done, right?

The original post was mine, and a bit of a rant because I need more space, and I really want a new rig. I have busted my arse on mine to get it in, and keep it in perfect condition. I'm not having to spend as much time on it as I used to and it's 3 years old... What I want is roughly twice what I paid for my first house... and about twice what I paid for my current unit, and I know I'll be out there fixing this and reworking that... probably for the next 3 years... Hence my rant...

Sorry if it upset anyone...
J & D in Lovely Weatherford, TX
2016 Jayco White Hawk 28DSBH TT
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab 4X4 6.7L Cummins
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:24 PM   #110
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To understand what has to be done to build a quality product,go shopping and look at the 102" wide liveing quarters horse trailers with slides and everything else that the rv industry offers(in the form of amenditys). All aluminum construction (yes frame and all) spray foam insulation,t&g aluminum sub floors with the aluminum walls welded to the frame,not carrige bolted.Aluminum wall frameing that is welded together , not put together with steel "L" brackets and self tapping steel screws.Window and door frames that are fully gusseted in all corners.One piece metal roofs.I know about this because I have one,actually have had more than one. The only reason we bought the TH was the full headroom bedroom and big bathroom,and we kept the last LQ horse trailer for short trips.We dont haul the mules in the LQ trailer,just the golf kart and a "room" for the dogs when we get where we are going.We have a dedicated horse trailer for the mules.
The RV people know all this,why else would Monaco buy Bison horse trailer mfg? to garner the high end market share.The horse trailer people wont buy crap that needs constant repair and wont go many,many miles with almost no maintanence.Ive already done more work on our 315wp and we havent even used it yet,than on the '09 Merhow in 5 years.

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