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Old 08-30-2016, 10:45 PM   #281
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Epilog to this mess.... I finally got the right parts and graphics from Forest River, fixed and sold the Surveyor. We got the White Hawk I've been thinking about and happy to say that it's better than I expected... so far. As good as it seems now, I'm sure to be working on it sooner or later... but that's the RV industry for you. I sometimes wish I didn't enjoy this as much as I do. It's a disease.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:34 AM   #282
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Good that you bought the Jayco now. Now owned by Thor, it won’t be long until they do what FR does, ramp up production, leading to poor workmanship, at the same time begin to introduce inferior cheapest parts and componants out there…but you are right, this what we signed up for.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:16 PM   #283
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O.K. I haven't read all this yet... but I will.

quote.. 90% of the issues people talk about in my humble opinion come form the unit being hauled 4000 miles at 85 mph buy someone who does not care. It arrives at a dealer who is paid good $$$ to check it out who does not do it and it gets sold to you.

I witnessed this over the weekend...trailer came flying by on I-30E 1T flat bed pulling a 5er. Had to be going 75-80 MPH. I was like dang he is traveling..then I realized what it prolly was.

Also.. Using an RV is kinda like driving a model A or real old car...you had to be a mechanic. I understand ALL the complaints...especially the ones where people "actually" have problems. I fear 2 things. 1st being tire failure(our fault for allowing cheap to dictate product availability). 2nd shoddy design or install of components that cause water damage. Tissue paper and aluminum aren't very durable materials.

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Old 09-03-2016, 10:56 AM   #284
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I would agree that some problems manifest themselves during the delivery run, and that the drivers generally don't care. I would have to disagree that the percentage is as high as you cite. In my opinion, most defects come from the pay methods most RV manufacturers use. These folks are paid by the number of units completed. As I have said earlier, that means if 2 screws are needed and there's a little problem, causing a distraction, you'll probably only get 1 screw. If there's a visible problem with a wall, it's going to get passed right along just like a perfect wall would. They don't stop and correct stuff, they just keep moving... and it won't change until we stop buying...
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:28 AM   #285
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Really not sure how we can blame much of the quality problems on the transport driver.
Fit & finish are assembly line issues.
Short term life of components (refrig, pumps etc) are a function of selecting low quality components in the first place.
I discovered a half full can of spray paint rolling around under bathroom floor of my Freelander. Clearly the transport driver didn't do that.

Concerning transport of RV from factory to dealer. I have seen cars transported in enclosed trailers or new cars with shrink-wrap so some car companies clearly feel their products deserve extra special care and they get to justify higher price for the car because the extra quality shows.
If RV companies actually cared about the quality of their products they would design them to survive normal use and would specify driving practice by transport driver rather than paying for the fastest possible delivery.

I think of the 12 v system as a good example. Car companies have developed and use 12 v wire, switches and connectors that are good for 100,000 miles. Why can't RV companies even get to 5,000? IMO because they simply do not care.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:07 PM   #286
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I suppose unless something blows off the RV doesn't know or care how fast it is going. My only concern is tire damage from excessive heat/stress from excessive speeds.

If you are traveling 65 mph with a 30-40 head wind...how fast is the wind concern. My concern wasn't that.

I agree with you Tireman the components are cheaply made and poorly installed in some cases. I think the auto industry is held to a higher standard than most other consumer products. I suppose they are more afraid of attorneys.


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Old 09-03-2016, 01:10 PM   #287
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One thought ( no data) on transport driver speed and effect on tires.

While in the past all ST type tires had a max speed rating of 65 mph. Today many and hopefully soon all will carry speed rating of at least 75.

Another important item is the new TT are at their lightest weight. So assuming the tire/wheel supplier to the Rv company was inflating the tires to the tire sidewall inflation and the lighter weight of the RV it is conceivable that the damage tot he tires, if any, is minimal
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:59 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman View Post
I, too would like to pass on my empathy for Wandering Jarhead's problems.

I've posted here a couple of times, including starting this thread. Lots of suggestions, slogans like "you get what you pay for", etc. There are even a few happy FR customers. I'm not, but not terribly unhappy either. Mine's had a few problems but has never been back to the dealer. I'm handy enough to fix about anything that comes up.

Well, I disagree... I don't think you get what you pay for. I think you get far less. I object to someone robbing me of my limited vacation time because they're too cheap to use good materials, or too lazy to do the job correctly. The money and RV I can replace... the time I cannot.

The suggestions of buying an older unit and gutting it are OK, if you want to do that with your free time instead of camp. I don't. I want to go and have trouble-free camping time with my children and grand children.

The suggestion of buying a $140,000- Airstream is, frankly, ludicrous. Why should I have to pay even half that much for a decent quality-built camper... Answer... I shouldn't.

This isn't a problem exclusive to FR, It's an industry-wide problem. It just happened to show up on the FR page because I own a FR product and come here more frequently than other RV pages. I have a friend that's less than handy, and I'd buy another FR product over his brand without even thinking about it. I work on his more than mine... yes... he's that good a friend. And... I have a compressor and an air nailer.

Those that are willing to pay hard-earned money for mediocrity are the problem with the RV industry. As long as we accept it the money will continue to roll in, and the crap will continue to roll out... literally. And, before anyone throws the hypocrite card at me... I'll admit it... busted... guilty! I am part of the problem. I'm about to be a part of it again as I am in the hunt (it'll take me a year to decide) for a new TT. I'm going to try one of the upscale models like Jayco Eagle, Grand Design Reflection, and a few others. Will it have problems? Most assuredly... What a shame. American quality has come to this. Again... what a shame. Lucky me, though... I'm handy and I have tools.
It would be great if none of our rigs ever had issues. If I wasn't handy I don't think I would ever think of owning a RV
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:14 AM   #289
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I was chatting with a guy who's family was in the RV business for 30+ years. He suggested to buy based on the dealer, not the brand. They are all made basically the same, with the more expensive units getting a little extra touch.

Most important is a dealer that will support you.
Now you tell me, lol.

We got the bug at a RV show. I'm not sure what we expected but in hindsight I never would have chosen that dealer, beside the fact that they're 300 miles away.
We liked the product though and so far there have been no major problems. The one we caught at PDI could have been a major one but the dealer had to pay a Ford dealer to fix it.

The Ford dealer said a wiring harness melted by the exhaust system because it was rerouted and secured incorrectly by the coach builder.

If we ever buy another RV it will be from a researched dealer closer to home. That experience and this forum have been the best education we could receive and we thank all of you for it!
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Old 06-10-2017, 04:24 AM   #290
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Smile

I think that, in summary of many of the thoughts and experiences we've all had on these issues, we have to admit that we don't really know as much about the RV 'industry' as we think we do. Yes, a negative experience can always bring assumptions to the surface, but many times these are emotionally driven, and not proven in everyday reality fact.
I know, it seems I'm putting down those who want to say negative comments about the industry, but the reality is that behind 'closed doors', whether at the the engine plant, the chassis builder, the RV factory, the delivery service, or at the dealer, there are MANY everyday processes and issues that we know relatively little about. That leads to making assumptions that might not be true.

for example:
- RV manufacturers for Class A motorhomes don't typically build units just to build them. They build them to order from dealer requests.
The dealer ordered the vehicle and is then committed to accepting it, delivery costs included, AND with the knowledge that an 'acceptance inspection' is the normally accepted practice to bring to light issues that the factory will later take care of, including those that have presented themselves between the build and the delivery, it's normal.
A rolling home-on-wheels will not be perfect. It can be very close, but every dealer knows very well that it is on THEM to find any issues BEFORE it gets to the customer. The dealer is the last QC on the path and accepts that position.
The dealer can, if they so choose, and at any time, decide to remove itself as a certain brand dealer, it is not something that the factory can demand of them. But if they remain, they are committed to seeing the process through.
Some choose the process of accepting the vehicle 'as is' and working out any warranty or PDI issues after the sale, others may do this before the vehicle ever goes onto the lot...regardless, the issues are to the dealer's discretion to handle after the vehicle has been delivered, within certain timelines set forth by the factory warranty department. Yes, these issues must be presented to the factory, and the work authorized, whether before or after the sale.
And, certainly no dealer wants to take care of any 'factory' issues out of their own pocket, but they also don't always have the 'time' to monitor every single issue of every unit that has arrived at their dealership, whether due to time or personnel.
The delivery of the vehicle is the point where the transfer of responsibility happens between the factory and the dealer. Several forms are signed by the dealer showing that there is no obvious exterior 'driver damage' or interior issues abnormal to the 'normal' factory build.
There can be minor issues that happen during delivery - rough roads can sometimes cause any loose trim or items to fall or separate, but that in itself is not a delivery issue, it's part of the accepted environment of the fact that this house-on-wheels has to get from the factory to the dealer. I think this is why some folks refer to this as a 'shake down' trip.

Delivery drivers are hired for one purpose - drive the unit safely and legally to the dealer, nothing more. They are not QC personnel, they are not employees, they are not responsible for factory design or work. They ARE responsible for the unit during transport, from a security standpoint, but road rash, windshield damage, paint chip damage, etc., are just part of the driving hazards we all encounter each day - a delivery transport service experiences the same issues, but has no responsibility for it, it's no one's 'fault' - the factories accept this, of course, and understand that these are part of the 'issues' they help take care of after delivery.
When the dealer notes any issues concerning the factory build, or the driver makes a note about any issues with engine, transmission, etc., to the dealer at the point of delivery, then the factory steps in to resolve the issue. Sometimes the dealer jumps on handling these right away, or sometimes they are put on a 'list' for later. Unfortunately, this is when new customers have to play a part in waiting for these to be handled after the purchase.

None of my comments are to discount anyone's feeling about the industry, especially if they feel they've been wronged in any way, but only to clarify the reality of how things really work, even though it might not make us 'feel good' for knowing it. While big issues not handle to our liking can be hurtful, hopefully the small items being handled in a quick and fair manner can give us hope.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:10 PM   #291
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Turb's, ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBS View Post
I use a auto reseting curcuit breaker for my slides.

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Turbs, could you elaborate on the auto resetting circuit breaker your using? I just experienced the same issue as the person you responded to on my 25BHS. TIA!
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:19 PM   #292
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RVs are not for you if you are not a handy man/woman

As most people here I experienced the bad and ugly.

We just bought a 2016 Sunseeker 2400W with 4500 miles in early June. The unit appeared to be in good shape but we soon found out that it was plagued with all sort of issues.

Although this is a used vehicule several/all issues were due to lack of Quality control at the Factory.

Radio-CD/DVD player (JWM6A) had a screw to prevent any motion in the player during transportation. That screw was well hidden... inside the cabinet. This screw should have been removed prior to installing the radio in the cabinet.

HDMI Cables feeding the JWM6A were interverted and so it was impossible to use HDMI ARC (useful to have the TV Audio output in the Coach speakers).

Another pathetic problem was the main water supply hose feeding the water pump. The hose was pinched under a piece of lumber supporting the shower. Water pressure was very low and not steady.

One of the Drawer latch was incorrectly installed and broke the supporting plank.

The oustide water spray nozzle quick connect was not really a quick connect... would not latch and with the low water pressure it was virtually useless. Replaced it with a standard Garden Hose.

The Kwikee electric stairs stopped working as soon as we got home. Took several hours to figure out what was wrong... Finally took it apart. WHen I removed the pressure on the gearbox I heard a click. I checked all parts and put every thing back together. For now it works but I am not very confident that this trouble is gone for good.

As I was searching for fuses that could protect the Kwikee electrical stairs I noticed a loose wire near the switch controlling the Electric Jacks. The jack extended normally but they would not retract... So I checked the wiring and noted that there were 2 wires not connected or not properly inserted on the tabs... Found the wiring info and reconnected the wire and all came back.

The Sirius antenna was damaged during installation. It was bent sharply and pinched under a plastic garnment. So much that the outer shell and metallic shield are damaged. Of course there is no signal so Sirius is not working.



This is what I discovered so far in a month and we have not driven much yet...

My advice to all reading this.

Be prepared for all sort of surprises.
=======================

If you are not a handy man/woman or have deep pocket and a ton of patience then you are better to stay away from new RV units. With a pre-owned you stand a better chance that most of the kinks have been dealt with by the previous owner.

In our case the previous owner gave up quickly. He probably was not happy with the quality and absence of service...

Despite all of the above we are still happy to have a new unit.
With the kinks out our unit should make us happy for a long while.


Good luck to the braves.


Keep on RVIng.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:19 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Platokidd View Post
When evaluating rv quality its best on a big curve. When I bought my 2013 It was gut wrenching experience of shoddy workmanship.

So we shopped again.... only to back the same mfg, because in our price range they had the best quality.

Certainty nothing to be real proud of.

I think its the first year you have to get all the bugs or pigs out.

I agree, as long as we keep buying em the will keep making em.

If you build it...he will come..
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:34 PM   #294
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We have a 2014 Georgetown 377 XL. Piece of Crap!!! We have had it 3 yrs this Oct. and have only apprx. 8,000 miles. So many problems from shoddy workmanship and materials. One of the boo boo's could have cost us our life. Whenthey put the box on the Ford chassis they have to do a front end alignment. Left tierod bolts finger loose. Wore out two front tire to threads in 1500 miles. Forestriver did reimburse me 1600.00 for that. Repaired ice maker line 8 times for pin holes. ram replaced on slide...still very rough in and out. All the upholstery delaminating which has been covered by throws. just replaced both AC's Leveling jacks leak down with no visible fluid leakage. Now fiberflass roof is cracking and splitting and it's under a metal rv cover. Don't buy a Forest River. Quality sucks
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:13 PM   #295
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I have disagree with some of these comments. Previously we owned Winnebago/Itasca class A DPs and the last one was a top of the line Horizon 40', there where issues with both of them. That being said, we recently down sized to a Coachmen Leprechaun 260DS on a Ford E450. We have been very impressed with the quality of the rig. Nice solid cabinet doors, hardware, and overall construction are very good. Interior features and detail are equal if not better that our previous DPs. Our dealer (Giant Recreation World) has been awesome before, during, and after selling us our Leprechaun. They have covered and corrected any and all issues we had with this RV. We are very happy campers. It pays to shop around not only for the RV that suits you but a dealership that stands by their product and their customers.
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