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Old 11-18-2015, 05:14 AM   #221
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I wish I would have went with a no slide class c. Perfectly happy with no leveling jacks as well. The reason I didn't go with the Holiday Rambler was the rubber roof, in my area of Washington didn't seem like a good idea, in retrospect would have been the better purchase. All the other components would have been the same, 18sq feet really isn't that big of a deal.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:32 AM   #222
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I will never buy another FR product either, and when I get the chance and the cash I will be trading it off, not to happy, and would never buy from that dealer I bought from, even though they had good reviews, I know I bought cheap, but there should be some quality, and a little "job done right" in their manufacturing
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:27 AM   #223
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I agree completely that things could and should of been done better when FR builds their RVs. I have spent many hours improving my Aviator. While I did enjoy doing it, many people don't and it is easy to get discourage by broken RVs and dealers who can't seem to fix things correctly in any sort of timely fashion. That being said, I am overall very pleased with the build quality and materials Forest River used in my camper. It did take some work initially on my part, but problems are now basically non existent.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:46 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by CAT-RN View Post
I'm probably not reading this right but your planning on buying a no slide no leveling jack RV ?

Russell
No, I'm not. I was saying that Lazy Daze makes a quality reliable coach that is factory direct sales but they offer little in options. They offer no slide outs or no automatic leveling jack systems. Therefore I would not buy one. Not to mention these lack of features do not reflect in the price. They are expensive considering the lack of features.
If I were to purchase now I would go with Nexus. They have the options and will customize things they way you want them. You truly can have input on where you want locations of outlets, lights etc. They are about $7000 cheaper than comparable coach's we were looking at on the lots including Forest River, Coachmen and Jayco.
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:15 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by SimoRandy View Post
As a first time RV owner I too was shocked at the quality that gets shipped out the door. Coming from the industrial manufacturing sector and having been trained in numerous quality, six sigma and production programs, I'm shocked that this industry can't produce quality products. I'm sure they have good people who really want to deliver a quality product " the first time", but as I've seen, investors want to see margin growth. I'm sure top management here is incentivized to cut costs, increase cash flow and move inventory as fast as possible. Unfortunately pushing product through as fast as possible and at a low cost causes a lack in quality. I'm betting good old Mr. Buffet and his fellow1%'rs are laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe we should all invest along with them and use the profits to fix our RV's ourselves!

I've had my Georgetown for a few months now and can't believe all of the simple things that weren't built correctly. I'm even more shocked that when the dealer did their PDI they didn't notice either! I have a whole list of items as well but here is just one example; how can you build, ship and test an RV when the furnace wires aren't even connected?

Being new to RV'ing, I thought maybe it was just my particular Georgetown. After joining this forum I see that it appears to be not only FR, but other manufactures as well. I got to the point that while having my unit in for warranty repairs I'd check out a Berkshire, for almost double the cost, to get a higher quality and better RV. I discussed my displeasure with my current RV with the salesperson who told me the Berkshire is built in a different plant and has a better reputation for quality. I suggested that it's the same company and perhaps they have the same manufacturing mentality. He proceeded to get the Berkshire ready for me to take a test drive. He was unable to close the video door he had opened and then started closing the slides. Unfortunately, as mentioned in an earlier thread, the slide tilted up and rammed into the ceiling! He suggested I come back another day to drive it.

At this point I'm certainly not going to be considering a new FR product and am quite frankly afraid to purchase any other brand if this is truly an industry wide problem. I don't want to spend $500K (if that's even enough) or more to live in a trustworthy RV. Can anyone recommend a reputable brand and model I'd certainly appreciate it.

I'll step down from my soapbox now. Thanks for letting me vent. When I recently retired and decided to live a dream of traveling the country in an RV and relieve some stress, I certainly wasn't planning on an RV creating even more.


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Originally Posted by lgray View Post
Forest River coaches are at a lower price point and for that price point; many would argue a pretty good value.If you are willing to pay a little more, you will get more and better quality, just not with FR.
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Originally Posted by hammer55 View Post
I will never buy another FR product either, and when I get the chance and the cash I will be trading it off, not to happy, and would never buy from that dealer I bought from, even though they had good reviews, I know I bought cheap, but there should be some quality, and a little "job done right" in their manufacturing

Randy & Hammer,

I strongly encourage you to contact Forest River Direct. Randy, I have met the folks from the Georgetown division and they are a great team. Please give them a chance to help you out. Their phone is 574-206-7600. The factory is located at 57746 South Napanee Street ( Highway 19) in Elkhart Indiana.

Hammer, I don't know what Forest River Product you have but I encourage you to contact the product team at Forest River.

IGray, while I agree that Georgetown is a lower price point, Forest River is committed to quality. Things happen, as the OP said, in ALL RV makes and models. I also disagree with your belief that Forest River Motorhomes are lower quality than other manufacturers. The Berkshire line - especially the Tag Axel XLT is a direct competitor with a Newmar Dutch Star. We have researched the XLT extensively, have taken a factory tour, and spoke to Berkshire senior managers. This will definitely be our next Motorhome when we retire in 2 years.
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:23 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by KenHwy61 View Post
I agree completely that things could and should of been done better when FR builds their RVs. I have spent many hours improving my Aviator. While I did enjoy doing it, many people don't and it is easy to get discourage by broken RVs and dealers who can't seem to fix things correctly in any sort of timely fashion. That being said, I am overall very pleased with the build quality and materials Forest River used in my camper. It did take some work initially on my part, but problems are now basically non existent.
Ken,

I think to be fair in this discussion, it should be mentioned that Aviators were built to compete in the Airstream market. I studied this brand for a while before deciding not to buy an orphan. I believe they were hand-built slowly and pretty carefully, with better materials than the average Surveyor or Rockwood... etc... To my way of thinking, it's an apples to oranfes comparison. I think you actually did a good thing buying that unit. I know how they were built and I think it'll last you a long time...
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:32 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by SimoRandy View Post
As a first time RV owner I too was shocked at the quality that gets shipped out the door. Coming from the industrial manufacturing sector and having been trained in numerous quality, six sigma and production programs, I'm shocked that this industry can't produce quality products. I'm sure they have good people who really want to deliver a quality product " the first time", but as I've seen, investors want to see margin growth. I'm sure top management here is incentivized to cut costs, increase cash flow and move inventory as fast as possible. Unfortunately pushing product through as fast as possible and at a low cost causes a lack in quality. I'm betting good old Mr. Buffet and his fellow1%'rs are laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe we should all invest along with them and use the profits to fix our RV's ourselves!

Randy & Sharon
RV'rs as of 2015
G-town XL 369 w/ wrangler hanging on the back!
Agree with much of what you said. I retired as VP of Quality at a major semiconductor company in Silicon Valley after time as Manufacturing Manager and as Product Development Manager. A few points:

-It is well documented in Quality literature that, when the true cost of quality is considered, quality manufacturing - "do it right the first time", quality circles, PDCA cycle implementation, 6 sigma manufacturing, etc - actually REDUCES costs. The idea that profits are improved by "pushing product through as fast as possible and at a low cost" is just wrong. Quality manufacturing IMPROVES profits!

-The argument that "it is the vendors, not the manufacturer" is also a problem. The manufacturer chooses, qualifies, inspects, pays, and manages the vendors. The manufacturer is "prime" - and, as such, is responsible for the quality of the parts used.

-I have regularly seen the claim that an RV is "a house on wheels" and can't be expected to withstand being driven or towed without problems developing. Many of us, after fixing the issues our coaches came with, have enjoyed years of trouble free usage. This experience proves that, properly designed and assembled, the RVs are quite capable of being driven or towed without inducing problems. As stated above, a good quality program - including FMEA (Failure Mode Effects Analysis), PDCA (Plan-do-check-act quality improvement cycles), etc - would essentially eliminate such issues.

-Having noted the above, I would suggest you consider buying used. As stated, many of us have taken the delivered unit and corrected essentially all of the issues. Also, we tend to be older - health or family issues can require "giving up" RVing - and selling our "corrected" units. If you can find one of these units, I suspect you will be more satisfied with it than you would be with a new unit. I believe buying used requires you to be a knowledgeable purchaser, of course.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:21 PM   #228
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I don't know how the Dutch Star is now but in 2004 -2006 they were way overpriced not built any better than
Fleetwood or Tiffin did not have as many standard features looked at them but got a better coach both times I bought something else
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:50 PM   #229
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Ken,

I think to be fair in this discussion, it should be mentioned that Aviators were built to compete in the Airstream market. I studied this brand for a while before deciding not to buy an orphan. I believe they were hand-built slowly and pretty carefully, with better materials than the average Surveyor or Rockwood... etc... To my way of thinking, it's an apples to oranfes comparison. I think you actually did a good thing buying that unit. I know how they were built and I think it'll last you a long time...
You are right on all you said. I am very happy with my Aviator and knowing it truly was built to last makes my effort to improve it worthwhile. But the slow hand build and high quality materials did not come cheap and they didn't sell well. Ironically, now that people realize how different they are and will not rot, the price on the few used has stayed up about where the last of the new units sold for. Somewhere there has to be a happy medium between Forest River's willingness to increase quality, the customer's willingness to pay for it, and the amount of profit FR feels it needs to make.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:54 PM   #230
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Right now I'm torn between buying another unit and keeping what I've "corrected" as said above. I spent this past weekend in mine, and for the first time in a long time, had no issues. But when I got it home and started cleaning it, I broke the A/C outlet on the end of the cabinet. Looks like I'll be reinforcing the 1/8" plywood on the side of the cabinet in the area of the outlet, and replacing it with a better receptacle. The quality problems are not just in the build, but the engineering as well... If my work was this shoddy, the railroad I work for would stop...
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