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Old 11-22-2015, 05:34 PM   #261
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I have a 2015 Georgetown 328TS and it has had 72 warranty items so far. Been in shop going on 4 months and still is broke.
we should start a support group for the victims of warranty work.
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Old 11-22-2015, 06:21 PM   #262
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Is it just a coincidence that there is no factory representative from Georgetown weighing in on any of these issues?
ďThere are two things that I don't believe in: coincidence and leprechauns."
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:47 AM   #263
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:58 AM   #264
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Agree with much of what you said. I retired as VP of Quality at a major semiconductor company in Silicon Valley after time as Manufacturing Manager and as Product Development Manager. A few points:

-It is well documented in Quality literature that, when the true cost of quality is considered, quality manufacturing - "do it right the first time", quality circles, PDCA cycle implementation, 6 sigma manufacturing, etc - actually REDUCES costs. The idea that profits are improved by "pushing product through as fast as possible and at a low cost" is just wrong. Quality manufacturing IMPROVES profits!

-The argument that "it is the vendors, not the manufacturer" is also a problem. The manufacturer chooses, qualifies, inspects, pays, and manages the vendors. The manufacturer is "prime" - and, as such, is responsible for the quality of the parts used.

-I have regularly seen the claim that an RV is "a house on wheels" and can't be expected to withstand being driven or towed without problems developing. Many of us, after fixing the issues our coaches came with, have enjoyed years of trouble free usage. This experience proves that, properly designed and assembled, the RVs are quite capable of being driven or towed without inducing problems. As stated above, a good quality program - including FMEA (Failure Mode Effects Analysis), PDCA (Plan-do-check-act quality improvement cycles), etc - would essentially eliminate such issues.

-Having noted the above, I would suggest you consider buying used. As stated, many of us have taken the delivered unit and corrected essentially all of the issues. Also, we tend to be older - health or family issues can require "giving up" RVing - and selling our "corrected" units. If you can find one of these units, I suspect you will be more satisfied with it than you would be with a new unit. I believe buying used requires you to be a knowledgeable purchaser, of course.
excellent post! i believe manufacturing and vendors are both failing the industry. the emphasis is seems to be delay repairs and get them out of warranty. either that or they are so backlogged they cant get to them. bad testamony to an ailing industry. recently installed a park model atwood furnace. it keeps scattering blower wheels made of plastic! how did this ever make it to production? the old ones would go 10 years. the fan control relay on the board measures 1"x.5".....the board has already failed. atwood says " they no longer manufacture this model"....its gone the way of the duraleg jack. im so done with this industry!....i know, i know...dont let the door hit me on the way out...

edit: if i were a mfg...id really be concerned about lippert and no competition...
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:24 PM   #265
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edit: if i were a mfg...id really be concerned about lippert and no competition...[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is a problem, and more so for the consumer than for the manufacturers. A couple of the TT brands I'm looking at make their own frames. I'm considering that a plus because Lippert had so many frame problems in the past. I don't think anyone buying an RV in this country can totally get away from Lippert, but I'd like to try. I'm amazed that the industry seems to be dominated by that company, and a couple of others. It's like you're buying a Lippert trailer with someone's idea of trim. One can find the same floor plan, with a few minor differences, often in 8 or 10 different brands. And, sure enough, just about every one of them is on the same Lippert frame... uses the same Lippert slide mechanisms, and so on, and so on... Atwood and Dometic seem to dominate the appliance field, but at least there's some competition.

Sadly, I believe the Chinese could build a better, cheaper trailer. But until there;s some real quality competition, the industry will continue to turn out 100K crappy RVs a year. Sadly, I'm just about out of the mood to trade up. I just don't want to pay through the nose for the hassle and disappointment of another new trailer. The industry will continue, with or without my individual infusion of cash... and there are plenty unsuspecting first-timers out there to sustain the factories... so nothing will change...
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:39 PM   #266
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Yes, that is a problem, and more so for the consumer than for the manufacturers. A couple of the TT brands I'm looking at make their own frames. I'm considering that a plus because Lippert had so many frame problems in the past. I don't think anyone buying an RV in this country can totally get away from Lippert, but I'd like to try. I'm amazed that the industry seems to be dominated by that company, and a couple of others. It's like you're buying a Lippert trailer with someone's idea of trim. One can find the same floor plan, with a few minor differences, often in 8 or 10 different brands. And, sure enough, just about every one of them is on the same Lippert frame... uses the same Lippert slide mechanisms, and so on, and so on... Atwood and Dometic seem to dominate the appliance field, but at least there's some competition.

Sadly, I believe the Chinese could build a better, cheaper trailer. But until there;s some real quality competition, the industry will continue to turn out 100K crappy RVs a year. Sadly, I'm just about out of the mood to trade up. I just don't want to pay through the nose for the hassle and disappointment of another new trailer. The industry will continue, with or without my individual infusion of cash... and there are plenty unsuspecting first-timers out there to sustain the factories... so nothing will change...
Over the last few days the CEO, CFO, and CAO of Drew Industries have all dumped stock. Drew Industries is Lippert components. That may mean nothing, or it may mean something.

As far as Dometic and Atwood being in competition, I wonder what ever happened with this.

Dometic Group acquires Indiana manufacturer

Posted on October 30th, 2014 The Swedish company Dometic Group bought Elkhart, Ind.-based Atwood Mobile Products LLC and is awaiting clearance to complete the purchase of Atwoodís Australian business, which is subject to regulator review.
RV, marine, truck and automotive product provider Dometic was cleared by U.S. antitrust authorities to purchase the company.
Dometic said Atwood has designed, engineered, and manufactured appliances and hardware for RVs, on- and off-road vehicles and the marine industry for 50 years.
Dometicís global revenue on a rolling 12-month basis after the acquisition will be about $1.4 billion, with the number of employees increasing to more than 7,000, the company said.
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:06 AM   #267
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Fortunately, there are still other choices to Dometic; Coleman for ACís and Norcold for refrigerators.Have one of each on the ACís and wonít buy another Dometic.Norcold seems to be superior on refrigeration as well.

Lippert's quality issues go without saying.
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:15 AM   #268
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There is a small service center that I use instead of a dealer. Countryside Service Center in Ringgold Va. They will build you any trailer that you want from the frame up. Not cheap but you will not have the problems we all have. I take mine there when needed, there rate of 70.00 dollars per hr beats RVOUTLET down the road at 90.00 per hour. RV is a FR dealer and can't repair anything. There are options out there that are not mass produced.
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:21 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by lgray View Post
Fortunately, there are still other choices to Dometic; Coleman for ACís and Norcold for refrigerators.Have one of each on the ACís and wonít buy another Dometic.Norcold seems to be superior on refrigeration as well.

Lippert's quality issues go without saying.
Norcold makes great products . Coleman ac however are at the bottom of the
pile .
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:56 AM   #270
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Hmm higher quality, Higher prices...I'm shocked

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I'm no authority but I do know quality when I see it... and I believe I know crap when I see it. I am a licensed aircraft mechanic (A&P) but i do not work in that industry... because IT pays better. So enough about me... just so the reader knows I'm not affiliated with the RV industry in any way other than as a consumer.

I went to the Tarrant County RV Show yesterday at the Ft. Worth Convention center. Sorry to say that I didn't see any improvement in quality over my first travel trailer that I purchased 5 years ago. There were a couple of bright spots but just a couple. Their price tags reflected that improvements in quality would definitely come at an increased cost. To me, that's understandable and OK... to a point. What I noticed was, as the quality improvements went up, the price increased exponentially. To top that off, the appliances and all were the same. Really?!?! Again, I come away from this feeling disappointed. Will this industry ever come up to a better standard?
I think RVs have come a long way in past years, there are many high end manufacturers, they may not have flocked to the RV mecca that the Tarrant County RV show is these days. Shows like this only reflect dealers in your area most likely. Why don't you go to one of the national expositions, or look at the inventory at a nation leader in RVs like Lazy Days RV. At the end of the day I guess the market demands aren't high enough to deem the quality you're looking for in an RV. If you can afford to live full time in an RV and endure travel costs, surely you can afford to drop some serious cash on the vehicle in which you're going to be spending your time in. I guess what I'm really saying is that you can't expect something for nothing. But if you do find a company putting imported Italian marble in pushers and trailers and selling them for the same price as a Coleman 30 ft trailer please let us know...
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