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Old 05-24-2015, 04:53 PM   #181
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Isn't it an oxymoron putting RV and Quality in the same sentence.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #182
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The whole point of this thread is....... Why in the cat hair should he have to do this? Why is this done this way instead of done so it won't fail? I paid good money to go camping, not to have a constant repair project. If I wanted to have to constantly fix what should have been done right the first time, I would have just built my own...

How much would it really cost to get the manufacturer to slow down just a touch and pay attention to detail during construction? Would it make a $25,000- unit cost $27,500-, or $30,000-? If I could be sure it was worth the extra bucks not to have to screw around fixing what some guy missed because he was just too rushed... I'd pay it. Unfortunately, I can't be sure... and that's a shame.

Extended warranty??? Surely you jest! It doesn't matter how good and ironclad a warranty is if you have to keep taking your unit in for repair, you're not going to be happy with it. This is especially true the way RV dealers seem to be these days. The terrible service reputation is why I work on my own trailer, but I shouldn't have to do that especially in the warranty period. But we keep buyin' 'em, so they keep slappin' 'em together.

Again...... this is not a Forest River problem... it's industry wide.
To answer the main question a $25000 unit will cost you $33000 to $35000 for quality. Would you want to trade what you have today for the same unit no problems, they exist if you really want I one and in your price point! Be the same floor plan, odds and ends a little different but same over all assuming it is not a fifth wheel. If it is a fifth wheel add another 3k as it will not be a mass produced Lipert frame.

I do not see it as worth it but if you do please go buy one!
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:04 PM   #183
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Isn't it an oxymoron putting RV and Quality in the same sentence.
Only if the word "good" precedes quality, but that's just me.
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:20 PM   #184
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I sold my 35' 1997 Mobile Scout TT for my 2014 42' new Columbus toy hauler. The only issue I ever had with my 35' Mobile Scout was the water pump quit took me 15 min. to put new one in. Not one other issue. Now My new 2014 Columbus had quit a few issues that I had to fix because the dealer didn't and couldn't I'm glad the 2 yr. warranty was free to me cause it's not worth much when the dealers can't fix what they sell. LOL The issues were poor installation of slide, heater ducting, Flat Screen TV, a couple cabnet draws, generator fuel line, battery compartment, both door seals, trailer brakes, water line leaks, roof caulking, toy hauler garage door seal, this just to name a few issues I have fixed all do to improperly installed components. Chaulks up to no quality control. There isn't anything on it I can't fix but I shouldn't have had to either. We love the rig now thanks to me.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:30 PM   #185
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To answer the main question a $25000 unit will cost you $33000 to $35000 for quality. Would you want to trade what you have today for the same unit no problems, they exist if you really want I one and in your price point! Be the same floor plan, odds and ends a little different but same over all assuming it is not a fifth wheel. If it is a fifth wheel add another 3k as it will not be a mass produced Lipert frame.

I do not see it as worth it but if you do please go buy one!
The main question is really... Can I buy quality for more money... the answer seems to be... maybe, but probably not. Are you willing to gamble even MORE and come away with the same crap? They all have the same appliances, axles, frames, wall laminations, etc... How did someone convince you that for $10K more you're getting better quality? I'm looking really hard right now and I am NOT seeing it.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:36 PM   #186
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Then maybe they should come with a label that reads 'more assembly may be required'.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:55 PM   #187
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The label should read ; fixing our assembly is required for we have no quality checks, buy at your own risk.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:19 PM   #188
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The main question is really... Can I buy quality for more money... the answer seems to be... maybe, but probably not. Are you willing to gamble even MORE and come away with the same crap? They all have the same appliances, axles, frames, wall laminations, etc... How did someone convince you that for $10K more you're getting better quality? I'm looking really hard right now and I am NOT seeing it.
You can buy RVs made of higher quality materials and components but the lack of quality control seems the same all the way across the price spectrum. My Aviator MSRP listed at 88K and was full of QC problems initially. I resolved all the problems myself and now have a rock solid trailer because of the upgraded materials it was originally built with.
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:45 AM   #189
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I have had quality problems with the MB part of the Solera. (6k). MB has been responsive and taken care of my problems.(all computer related). What I have difficulty with understanding is how the Solera was allowed to go out the door with a totally inadequate rear suspension. Has anyone handled the MB SHOCKS?
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:10 AM   #190
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The main question is really... Can I buy quality for more money... the answer seems to be... maybe, but probably not. Are you willing to gamble even MORE and come away with the same crap? They all have the same appliances, axles, frames, wall laminations, etc... How did someone convince you that for $10K more you're getting better quality? I'm looking really hard right now and I am NOT seeing it.
You need to look harder as it does not exist at 99% of the RV dealers your going to look at. It may not even exist at 99.9% as most only carry one of two product lines, Thor or Forrest River.

No one convinced me of anything. I can fix a lot of stuff for 10k if I ever need to and was not willing to travel the distance needed to look at higher end models. But I will not say they do not exist, they are just not for my price point or lifestyle!

On another note another ma&pa RV builder just went out of business a couple weeks back. Built basic RVs, tough and strong but lacked some of the flare you get from the mass produced RVs. They were a fair bit heavier and cost more and for some reason we're a tough sell.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:13 PM   #191
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Kenhwy61... I was looking at a Wright Flyer, too, for a while. But even at the 55% of MSRP they wanted for it, I didn't see the value there... nor the cost making it. It's fiberglass for the most part, and that's better than what most are made of, but it's not that expensive. and once the molds are done... it's pretty cheap to continue making part after part. The fact that you had to do so much to it is why I didn't buy one... plus the fact that it's basically an orphan. If you wreck it... where are you going to find parts? All of that said... they are the coolest TT EVER!!!!

I never understood why the Aviators had problems, because it was reported that they took their time and built each one, carefully... Go figure.

X96mnn... Where would you suggest I look? And... What Mom & Pop RV maker went outa business?
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:03 AM   #192
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What you said is true Shrederman. You shouldn't have to fix any new trailer and especially one at a high price point. One would expect near perfection but that goes back to the fact whether you buy a popup or luxury 5er the attention to detail is not that much different. I will say I have no regrets at all about buying my Aviator. I got a very good deal and while disappointed at first with the lack of QC, I actually have enjoyed working and improving on it. It just has a very solid feel that I never got in any of my other TTs. That makes me think my work is going into something built to last and that's where the value is. As far as being orphaned and replacing parts goes, the only thing I worry about is the big front picture windows. They are 1/4 thick glass Guardian glass and while probably very tough, I have no idea if FR stocks replacements if one was ever needed. The great view and the feeling of being outside when you're inside makes having the glass worth the risk though.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:43 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by schrederman View Post
The main question is really... Can I buy quality for more money... the answer seems to be... maybe, but probably not. Are you willing to gamble even MORE and come away with the same crap? They all have the same appliances, axles, frames, wall laminations, etc... How did someone convince you that for $10K more you're getting better quality? I'm looking really hard right now and I am NOT seeing it.
Not sure how big a RV you are looking for, but take a look at either the Cedar Creek or Cardinal. I have found these two lines to be some of the highest quality construction FR makes.

Only other one you might want to look at is the Duramax Trilogy. Only problem with this 5er is it is a Orphan; Duramax discontinued the 5er shortly after being acquired by FR. You can still find 2014 (Fiberglass roof) models on Wholesale lots in New condition.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:45 PM   #194
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I'm stuck with travel trailers. My activities force me to have a covered truck bed with enough room for several sets of 6 - 7 foot glider wings, 6' fuselages, tails, and lots of support equipment. Often the field is away from the RV site so I have to be able to transport all of it in the truck. I would probably have better luck finding what I need in a 5er but this one little detail keeps me from looking. We're looking for something in the 30 - 35 foot range with big bunks. I really lusted after the Aviator trailers, and there was a third floor plan that never went into production that I really liked. It was big enough for what I need and like I said... there's never been a cooler TT. I just don't want to go through the trouble to remanufacture something... but no matter what I buy, it looks as though I will have to.
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Old 05-26-2015, 05:08 PM   #195
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Not sure how big a RV you are looking for, but take a look at either the Cedar Creek or Cardinal. I have found these two lines to be some of the highest quality construction FR makes.

Only other one you might want to look at is the Duramax Trilogy. Only problem with this 5er is it is a Orphan; Duramax discontinued the 5er shortly after being acquired by FR. You can still find 2014 (Fiberglass roof) models on Wholesale lots in New condition.
Our next door neighbor just had his Cedar Creek 40CRS delivered last Friday. Did a tour on Saturday and it was VERY nice quality really pretty luxurious for a TT. Much nicer interior than our soon to come Wildwood 4092BFL.
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Old 05-26-2015, 05:27 PM   #196
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Quality struck me again today in the way of my Dometic A/C unit over the bedroom assembled in China. LOL It was low on Freon it's fixed now but just another China Quality assembly item, go figure.
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:09 PM   #197
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RV quality

You are right, in case you lowered the MSRP
for minimum 40% and 100% of dealer
charge for standard equipment.
That will be right thing to buy.😜
What you girls and guys think about Lemon Law and all of
different type of FRAUD what dealers and manufacturers did and still doing to all of us.
Let's put attorneys to work ( manufacturers and dealers will
pay attorneys fee ) and results will show very soon.
I'm not attorney, btw.
When the money start going out of their accounts they will have two choices, shoot the doors or do the better.
Process will last from 6-12 months, but patients will be winning as always.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:45 AM   #198
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Well... just when you thought this rant was over... up jumps the devil!

Seriously, I was reading on another forum about a TT that has a twisted frame, (not made by FR, by the way), and the nightmares the owners are having. The TT is in warranty, but these folks are having to wonder if the warranty is going to be honored.... REALLY??? Yes, really. This amazes me. Is the RV industry so piss poor that they take money for this stuff and then snub their noses at owners that put their trust in them?

I have a friend that just sold a pickup truck back under Texas' Lemon Law. Do lemon laws exist for RVs? Probably for motor-homes, since they are self-propelled... but what about for the rest of us that own 5ers, TTs, pop-ups, etc? I'd bet that in the absence of foreign competition like the auto makers faced, a lemon law would be about the only way to force the RV industry to bring their quality... and the control thereof... up into acceptable levels. Until then... not gonna happen.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:04 PM   #199
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Schrederman and all,
my opinion that we ASAP need to push RV manufactures with Lemon Law attorneys to do
better and give us deserved respect as customers ......
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:48 PM   #200
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At the risk of legal talk (against forum policy), not all states cover all types of rvs. For example in NC if it doesn't have a motor it is not covered by the lemon law. A consumer law lawyer and a litigation lawyer won't take it either. Don't ask me how I know this. You would be better off petitioning congress or nhtsa or something like that.
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